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View Poll Results: Your Eurogeddon prediction

Voters
54. You may not vote on this poll
  • Greece will leave the Euro by 2013/14

    22 40.74%
  • The Euro will survive and Greece will stay

    10 18.52%
  • There will be a split into a Northern Euro and Southern Euro

    3 5.56%
  • The Euro will collapse totally

    4 7.41%
  • I want my country to leave the Euro

    3 5.56%
  • I want my country to join the Euro

    0 0%
  • I want my country to leave the Euro and the EU

    6 11.11%
  • I want my country to join the Euro and the EU

    1 1.85%
  • Germany is the problem, it should leave the Euro

    4 7.41%
  • $$$$$ USA! USA! USA! $$$$$

    14 25.93%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/30/2012 7:21am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Mason was until recently a card carrying member of the Socialist Worker's Party. His published works include: Live Working or Die Fighting: How The Working Class Went Global and Why It's Kicking Off Everywhere: The New Global Revolutions

    The later is a 200 odd page wank sock to the petulant children of the Occupy movement.
    So what. Being this guy a leftist means he's no telling the truth abut fascism rising in Greece? I expect someone educated as you to be capable of more ellaborated ad hominen fallacies.

    OTOH, a well deserved wank sock, I agree. They are a shame for Thoreau, Habermas or Malcolm X legacies.

    Meanwhile in Greece:

    A 26-year old Greek woman has become an overnight national hero after setting fire to the genitals of a 23-year old drunken Briton who allegedly tried to sexually assault her in a crowded bar.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-genitals.html
    ;)
  2. Hiro Protagonist is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/30/2012 7:59am

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    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Moenstah View Post
    You are wrong, the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn was founded by Mathers. It's corrupted version (all the fault of that archdemon Crowley) infiltrated the Greek political scene. All part of the devious British plan of using the Greeks as pawns in their game to bring down the EU and starting a new European war.


    The whole oblivion thing is just to subliminally familiarise unwitting gamers with the Order.

    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    Meanwhile in Greece:

    Both your comments sound perfectly in line with all the historical documentaries I have watched about the British Isles.

  3. Zencreative is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/30/2012 8:55am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    You're of course free to believe that someone who speaks for the views of the majority of the population of the 3rd most largest country in the EU is a demagogue.
    Oh really? The majority, you say?

    From Wikipedia:

    'At the 2010 General Election, Farage failed to unseat John Bercow and received only the third highest share of the vote in the constituency.'
  4. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/30/2012 9:33am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zencreative View Post
    Oh really? The majority, you say?

    From Wikipedia:

    'At the 2010 General Election, Farage failed to unseat John Bercow and received only the third highest share of the vote in the constituency.'
    Looking for UKIP representatives in House of Commons... can't find any.

    Looking for UKIP representatives in House of the Lords... 3 conservative party defectors of 764 members non elected by Her Majesty subjects.

    Wow... the voice of the people.
  5. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/30/2012 3:57pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    So what. Being this guy a leftist means he's no telling the truth abut fascism rising in Greece? I expect someone educated as you to be capable of more ellaborated ad hominen fallacies.
    He's the kind of leftist who is obsessed with fascists in a McCarthyist way. He's not a reliable observer of whether fascism is or isn't rising.

    Recognising a fundamentally compromised source is not the same as ad hominem. If someone else had penned that article I might be inclined to take it seriously, but Mason wrote it and he's not a reliable observer of events.

    Also he fucking quoted Laurie Penny and psuedo foot noted it, I mean jesus christ. That's the definition of delusional.

    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    OTOH, a well deserved wank sock, I agree. They are a shame for Thoreau, Habermas or Malcolm X legacies.
    They're just kids who like the idea of sitting around in a tent talking politics and then throwing stuff at police.

    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    Meanwhile in Greece:
    ;)
    Lol, well played.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zencreative View Post
    Oh really? The majority, you say?

    From Wikipedia:

    'At the 2010 General Election, Farage failed to unseat John Bercow and received only the third highest share of the vote in the constituency.'
    See earlier post with polling showing 78% in favour of a referendum and over 50% in favour of leaving.

    Then remember the party with the largets number of seats in the HOC is the Conservative party, the majority of the seats held by members of that party were new intake MPs in 2010. The 2010 generation being acknowledge as the most Eurosceptic intake ever to sit in the house.

    Even the Grauniad is editorialising for leaving the EU

    The EU budget is a flatulent confection of national, industrial and sectoral lobbies. It has never passed audit
    Yuko.

    The EU can disregard them all. Unlike America, stymied when Congress rejects a budget, it can go on spending what it likes pending eventual "agreement". Besides, it has no mechanism for restraining, let alone cutting, spending. Those who blow a whistle on its endemic corruption face dismissal or jail. For all its anthems, flags and public relations, the EU is not a nice organisation. The affection for it shown by a dwindling band of British politicians is bizarre.
    Wazari

    Historians will wonder at what point the postwar European enterprise imploded into its core paradox: the impossibility of making a supranational union answerable to subsidiary national identities. The parallel is not with the US but with the old Soviet Union
    Damn, that must sting.

    This must be the most awesomely authoritarian project to emerge in western Europe since 1945
    Ippon sore made.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...pro-eu-charade
  6. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/30/2012 4:19pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    He's the kind of leftist who is obsessed with fascists in a McCarthyist way. He's not a reliable observer of whether fascism is or isn't rising.

    Recognising a fundamentally compromised source is not the same as ad hominem. If someone else had penned that article I might be inclined to take it seriously, but Mason wrote it and he's not a reliable observer of events.
    Fine. Is The Grauniad a reliable source of news as far as you're concerned?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...eece-far-right
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...-police-claims

    Financial Times is a commie pamphlet?
    http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...#axzz2AormJk4I
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/08267b00-1...#axzz2AorOW9WS
  7. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/30/2012 4:28pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    So what. Being this guy a leftist means he's no telling the truth abut fascism rising in Greece? I expect someone educated as you to be capable of more ellaborated ad hominen fallacies.

    OTOH, a well deserved wank sock, I agree. They are a shame for Thoreau, Habermas or Malcolm X legacies.

    Meanwhile in Greece:



    ;)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zencreative View Post
    Oh really? The majority, you say?

    From Wikipedia:

    'At the 2010 General Election, Farage failed to unseat John Bercow and received only the third highest share of the vote in the constituency.'
    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    Don't misunderstand me. I'm sure Golden Dawn enjoys a modicum of popularity amongst some working class voters and has some middle and upper class wealthy backers. I can also believe that they may have support amongst the Greek police. However, Mason is not a reliable source for the strength of Golden Dawn's popularity or depth of support amongst the police.

    Also I suspect the '1930s haunts Greece'/'Austerity turns Greeks into fascists' meme is just another iteration on the 'lazy, tax dodging Greeks' and 'Corrupt, greedy Greeks' meme. Probably accurate about a small or select subsection of the society, in the latter two cases the elite/ political class and in the former the non-elite/ working class. However, not in anyway representative of the society as a whole.
  8. Zencreative is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/31/2012 4:37am


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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    See earlier post with polling showing 78% in favour of a referendum and over 50% in favour of leaving.

    Then remember the party with the largets number of seats in the HOC is the Conservative party, the majority of the seats held by members of that party were new intake MPs in 2010. The 2010 generation being acknowledge as the most Eurosceptic intake ever to sit in the house.
    Opinion polls aren't the same as actually voting though, otherwise we wouldn't bother with elections. I suspect a referendum would have a pretty low turnout because (rightly or wrongly) the majority here don't actually care or know that much about the EU.

    With regard the 2010 election, it may be that the most tories are eurosceptics but they still couldn't form a majority without the Libs who I'm pretty sure on the whole aren't. I felt the Tories played down the eurosceptic element in their campaign as they knew it wasn't a vote winner.

    The Gaurniad's comment is free section is meant to have all sorts of diverse and provocative opinions; it's not quite the same as the paper endorsing a particular opinion.
  9. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/31/2012 11:21am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Also I suspect the '1930s haunts Greece'/'Austerity turns Greeks into fascists' meme is just another iteration on the 'lazy, tax dodging Greeks' and 'Corrupt, greedy Greeks' meme. Probably accurate about a small or select subsection of the society, in the latter two cases the elite/ political class and in the former the non-elite/ working class. However, not in anyway representative of the society as a whole.
    You are starting to sound like a 1920's british conservative talking about Mussolini or the famous austrian waterpainter.
  10. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/31/2012 3:12pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zencreative View Post
    Opinion polls aren't the same as actually voting though, otherwise we wouldn't bother with elections. I suspect a referendum would have a pretty low turnout because (rightly or wrongly) the majority here don't actually care or know that much about the EU.
    Are you British or do you live here?


    Quote Originally Posted by Zencreative View Post
    With regard the 2010 election, it may be that the most tories are eurosceptics but they still couldn't form a majority without the Libs who I'm pretty sure on the whole aren't. I felt the Tories played down the eurosceptic element in their campaign as they knew it wasn't a vote winner.
    Well, in an election centring around who was going to lead the country out of recession they and everyone else focussed on the economy.

    Try talking to MPs about the post bags full of letters about the EU they get and the people who they meet on the doorstep who want to talk about it. You might find your cosy assumptions slightly shaken.

    Also watch Labour flirting with Euroscepticism tonight when they voted with the Tory's for a cut in the EU budget. They know where the voters are on Europe, even if you don't.

    Also, heard any Lib Dems in the news in the last few days defending the EU or saying the budget should increase? I haven't. They've gone into hiding, because they know how hideously out of step with the electorate they are on Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    You are starting to sound like a 1920's british conservative talking about Mussolini or the famous austrian waterpainter.
    Come on you're not one of those people who believes "economic crisis + shouty man + people in made up uniforms = auschwitz"

    You know full well the circumstances were much more complex than that.

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