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View Poll Results: Your Eurogeddon prediction

Voters
55. You may not vote on this poll
  • Greece will leave the Euro by 2013/14

    22 40.00%
  • The Euro will survive and Greece will stay

    11 20.00%
  • There will be a split into a Northern Euro and Southern Euro

    3 5.45%
  • The Euro will collapse totally

    4 7.27%
  • I want my country to leave the Euro

    3 5.45%
  • I want my country to join the Euro

    0 0%
  • I want my country to leave the Euro and the EU

    6 10.91%
  • I want my country to join the Euro and the EU

    1 1.82%
  • Germany is the problem, it should leave the Euro

    4 7.27%
  • $$$$$ USA! USA! USA! $$$$$

    14 25.45%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/19/2012 4:30pm

    Join us... or die
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    "Welcome David, come and join us" Herman and Jose said welcomingly

    “But I don’t want to go among mad people," David remarked.

    "Oh, you can’t help that," said the Herman: "we’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad."

    "How do you know I’m mad?" said David.

    "You must be," said the Jose, “or you wouldn’t have come here.”

    And with that the EU summit began.
  2. ashkelon is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/20/2012 2:08am


     Style: Striking, grappling

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    I agree that Barroso and Van Rompuy are weaklings and rejects from their respective national politics. Van Rompuy was prime minister here because he has so little of an opinion noone was entirely against him when the country was on fire.

    But... J_UK, you do agree it's partly because the British blocked stronger candidates that these neutral technocrat types are in office? They should've put Tony Blair instead of VR, that would've been a laugh...
  3. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/20/2012 7:04am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ashkelon View Post
    But... J_UK, you do agree it's partly because the British blocked stronger candidates that these neutral technocrat types are in office? They should've put Tony Blair instead of VR, that would've been a laugh...
    Can you name any of these candidates we've blocked and explain how we circumvented the QMV system to block them?
  4. Hiro Protagonist is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/21/2012 4:54am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ...And, while you're on it, Juck, ask your government about Alan Turing.

    ...You might have to google who that is first. Which is part of your overall problem.
  5. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/21/2012 6:05am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiro Protagonist View Post
    ...And, while you're on it, Juck, ask your government about Alan Turing.

    ...You might have to google who that is first. Which is part of your overall problem.
    Lol, as you're so keen on Googling things, why don't you Google how many of your fascist U-boat operating ancestors ended up at the bottom of the Atlantic thanks to Turing and the Bletchley team?

    Or are you upset because your Granddad was one of them?
  6. ashkelon is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2012 10:09am


     Style: Striking, grappling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Can you name any of these candidates we've blocked and explain how we circumvented the QMV system to block them?
    You don't need to circumvent the voting to exert influence, it's called politics.
    From the top of my head - two of them Belgian nationals, obviously I know them best: De Haene, Verhofstadt en Juncker.

    The French will only push someone strong if they can keep their influence and he's pro-european in the French sense. The British will block anyone who's either strong or too pro-european. The small countries will settle if one of their own is appointed.
    Next time will be interesting as before Germany never made it's power count.

    For the record, I think it's a perverse system and the commission should be entirely appointed by the EP.

    Also, history, get over it, it's in the past.
  7. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/21/2012 2:09pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashkelon View Post
    You don't need to circumvent the voting to exert influence, it's called politics.
    From the top of my head - two of them Belgian nationals, obviously I know them best: De Haene, Verhofstadt en Juncker.

    The French will only push someone strong if they can keep their influence and he's pro-european in the French sense. The British will block anyone who's either strong or too pro-european. The small countries will settle if one of their own is appointed.
    I don't have enough information to dispute the specifics, but I think my general point remains.

    That whether Britain veteos certain people, or for that matter whether any country veteos certain people has no impact on the lack of democracy inherent in the system.

    Also that we can't be singled out for veteoing or blocking things when you yourself readily admit to the French and Germans blocking people they don't like.

    Quote Originally Posted by ashkelon View Post
    Next time will be interesting as before Germany never made it's power count.
    Nor have the Mediterranean countries had such an incentive to weaken that power. Although the EU has cunningly neutered the most effective pairing by deposing the democratically elected Berlusconi and replacing him with their puppet gauleiter Monti. Thus preventing Spain and Italy presenting a united front.

    Quote Originally Posted by ashkelon View Post
    For the record, I think it's a perverse system and the commission should be entirely appointed by the EP.
    Glad to hear that, no right minded person could think otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by ashkelon View Post
    Also, history, get over it, it's in the past.
    HP is being an arse, so I'm being rude to him. I have no time for the idiots who think questioning the EU makes you a fascist, they should be mocked for such ignorance of history and reality.
  8. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/21/2012 2:43pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Two things about Eurogeddon, whilst all eyes were on Greece the real collapse was happening in Spain and is now really coming to a head.

    Similarly whilst people concentrated on German angst with the perpetual bailouts, more serious rumblings have been happening in Finland.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the collapse of Spain and the disgusted withdrawal of Finland were the two, true harbingers of the end of the Euro project.
  9. ashkelon is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2012 2:53pm


     Style: Striking, grappling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The French are by and large the biggest hypocrites in the union, at least the British are openly trolling...

    I think it does influence, a stronger EC would make more efforts to reform the union. The Council is just too powerful and the biggest lack of democracy is at that level.
    It's pretty similar to "guided democracies", as in the Middle East.
    Anyway, this is all (con)federalist logic and the future of the Union should be decided soon as right now all the different groups are starting to overlap and it's a complete mess with everyone scrambling just to get a hold on the crisis and no clear vision on where it starts and where it ends.
  10. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/21/2012 3:25pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ashkelon View Post
    The French are by and large the biggest hypocrites in the union, at least the British are openly trolling...
    No one can argue with the French being hypocrites. I wish our govt. did spend their time trolling the EU. Sadly, I think what you mistake for trolling is them oscilliating between trying to pander to the Eurosceptic and EU-phobic, though not Euro-phobic electorate. And being told horror stories by the civil service about how if we leave the EU or don't give in to this or that directive/ negotiating position the sky will fall in and dogs and cats will start living together.

    Quote Originally Posted by ashkelon View Post
    I think it does influence, a stronger EC would make more efforts to reform the union.
    Council or Commission?

    The commission has no interest in any reform unless it aggregates more power to them and other unelected officials. They're fundamentally and avowedly technocratic not democratic.

    There's not a single one of them who see the solution to any problem as less government involvement. There attitude is all, if it moves tax it, if it keeps moving regulate it, if it stops moving subsidise it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ashkelon View Post
    The Council is just too powerful and the biggest lack of democracy is at that level.
    It's pretty similar to "guided democracies", as in the Middle East.
    Anyway, this is all (con)federalist logic and the future of the Union should be decided soon as right now all the different groups are starting to overlap and it's a complete mess with everyone scrambling just to get a hold on the crisis and no clear vision on where it starts and where it ends.
    You know what's sad, if the Maastricht rebels had won in 1992 the whole monstrous Euro project might have been stopped and all this pain and suffering now being experienced across Europe spared. However, conversely it probably needed a crisis of this magnitude to show up the lies and falsehoods of the Europhiles for what they were.

    Hopefully in 5-10 years time people will be talking about the post-Euro, post-EU recovery. When the history books will be full of discussion about how the folly of European politicians in their overreaction to the second world war ended in such an economic, political and social disaster.
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