Italian dagger-fighting schools and/or publications

**Evilenzo** · Posted On: 8/09/2012 2:15am

Hello everyone!

A quick introduction to my inquiry: I practice Aikido, Aikiken (sword) and Aikijo (shortstaff) at my dojo. Aside from the gaps in these arts (which i really hope won't be discussed in this thread, at least for the sake of novelty...), we are not having any instruction whatsoever on short blades.

And that's where you experts come into play: as you can see i'm Italian and i've heard from several sources about the existence of indigenous armed-fighting styles, including one centered around daggers.

Could anyone please help me with informations, websites, books, schools, anything?

I would really like a chance to learn a style who might have been practiced by an ancestor of mine, plus some short bladed training could be useful both personally and to the dojo, to improve disarming training and other things.

**DCS** · Posted On: 8/09/2012 5:21am

I know of a spanish guy who is into WMA and knows italian/sicilian knife fighting practitioners. I could put you both in contact.

**Evilenzo** · Posted On: 8/09/2012 7:32am

That would be great!

**DCS** · Posted On: 8/09/2012 6:29pm

Enzo, contact info sent at your pm.

Ciao.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 8/09/2012 6:40pm

You may want to look up the work of Fiore dei Liberi, who wrote a book called "Flos Duellatorum" in the early 1400s. Lots of armed and unarmed combat, including the dagger. Not a bad place to start.

There's another group called Nova Scrimia, which does stuff like that. Here's a vid of them doing some dagger fencing:

**wikidbounce** · Posted On: 8/09/2012 9:33pm

Here's some reading material I remember seeing on Scribd.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/35559818/T...letto-Fighting

Don't know if you'll get anything out of it as I only gave it a quick look. From what I remember it wasn't what I was after but hey - Free online book.

**Vorschlag** · Posted On: 8/09/2012 10:17pm

What period or art are you interest in because your being given options for "modern" knife fighting and historical dagger fighting?

Each obviously holds a value of its own but they are clearly very different, people could probably assist more if they knew exactly where you wanted to go with this.

**Evilenzo** · Posted On: 8/10/2012 1:16am

Originally Posted by Vorschlag

What period or art are you interest in because your being given options for "modern" knife fighting and historical dagger fighting?

Each obviously holds a value of its own but they are clearly very different, people could probably assist more if they knew exactly where you wanted to go with this.

You are right, of course. Considering that I couldn't focus on it very much (i'm in the final phase of my master degree, plus i would never subtract time to Aikido practice), i would like to focus on the one which is more readily accessible, with easier to find books/videos/groups, schools and, of course, blades.

Thank you very much everyone, you and this site never let me down!

**Vorschlag** · Posted On: 8/10/2012 6:10am

Well the damn thing won't let me edit the error in my original post....
Anyway, Fiore is probably not going to be applicable as his dagger fighting is designed as part of a complete system of knightly arts.

While it could be studied alone it may difficult to do given the restraints especially as you would be excluding the rest of his system.

It is also based on the use of a medieval dagger rather than a modern blade so again may not be applicable to your interests.

In which case the "modern" knife fighting would possibly be more likely to meet your requirements as it should be easier to apply to your existing practices without having to retrain a whole new system and would in all likelihood be more readily practiced and accessible.

I'm sure someone will correct me if they think otherwise.

**Petter** · Posted On: 8/10/2012 5:10pm

Originally Posted by Vorschlag

Anyway, Fiore is probably not going to be applicable as his dagger fighting is designed as part of a complete system of knightly arts. [...] It is also based on the use of a medieval dagger rather than a modern blade so again may not be applicable to your interests. [...] I'm sure someone will correct me if they think otherwise.

I agree entirely. I admittedly haven't seen or done much dagger in the Fiore tradition, but I've seen some, and while I think it's entirely legitimate, it doesn't much resemble what you'd want to use in a modern knife fight, because

Much of it appears to be predicated on the kinds of attacks useful against an armoured opponent, i.e. powerful thrusts especially to vulnerable points in armour, rather than light thrusts and slashes.
As Vorschlag pointed out, the daggers of the period were very different weapons. A rondel dagger typically had a blade about a foot long, and its cross-section was sometimes triangular, rendering it an awkward weapon to cut with, but excellent for punching through weak spots in plate.

Both factors mean that the techniques used to deal with these weapons may potentially differ significantly from techniques suitable for dealing with a short-bladed slashing knife.