Posted On:5/02/2012 10:27am
Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo
I've been in martial arts for awhile and I keep thinking or posting about the same old ****, so hopefully I'll have the time and motivation to type a lot of the stuff that comes to mind, or if the response is that it's too boring I'll just pout. This way I can just cite a post, maybe, in the future and save my breath, so to speak.
This Xmas my family was visiting us and we were spending a few days in Kailua Kona (the dry resort tourist area of the big isle of Hawaii). We were on the main drag and I saw an aggressive drunk or high man harassing people on the sidewalk. Being a old ma I took my family across the street to give us some distance and out of curiosity watched - also I figured if he went after someone he could hurt I could kick his ass. Literally, I wouldn't dream of "fighting," maybe driving side kick him into traffic or a storefront window, or come up behind and grab the back of his shirt and kick his knee and try and break his head on the cement, some high percentage technique (I've never injured anyone outside the dojo [before I was bb I did break some ribs and noses before I got better control], well except once, but we were friends fucking around).
He approached two tourists, both men, Latino looking guys in their thirties, maybe South American. They didn't back down and it got louder. Then suddenly he made a shitty punch and a lot faster the Latino guy in one smooth move blocked and took the aggressor's right hand or wrist with his own left, spun under it going to his left (guy's right), and pulled it into a hammerlock (kimura shoulder lock?) with the wrist high up near the guys neck, flipping the guy onto his face, bending him over the sea wall.
He held him there until the guy calmed down, then had a little talk and let him go. By that time cops were showing up and we split. The technique impressed me and I later found it's taught in BJJ schools as a self defense, and if given a chance I'll drill the kiddies at the dojo tonight. I'm sure it's in JJJ and Judo, buy I don't know if those dojos teach that kind of thing.
Bob Wagner was a big karateka from Chicago, eventually getting his bb in Kyokushin, and famous for being a dirty fighter. Once he bloodied my nose and I wiped a handful of blood all over his gi. He got mad but I said, you broke it, you wear it. One Friday night Sensei Yukio Kono and his visiting (also) 4th Dan Shorinji Kempo buddy came down to our class, being it sparring night. Bob had 50+ pounds on the buddy and was showing no 'respect' to the older Japanese guy. He was his usual aggressive self, trying to take the guy's head off. Then the Japanese bb got ahold of Bob's hand and made Bob dance around him with wrist locks. He looked calm, but I think was obviously annoyed at idiot bully and he kept it up for some time, switching hands making Bob run back and forth with his face near the floor.
After, Bob came up to us all wide eyed and enthusiastic, "Did you see what that guy did?!!?" Yeah Bob. We gave each other the eye, and hoped that Bob had learned something, but we doubted it, he was plenty dense. It was good that Bob hadn't managed to hurt or really piss of the 4th Dan; he could have had his arms broken or shoulders dislocated - the guy was that good and also, by the way, a master of massage. He could dislocate joints and put them back, amazing stuff. People say Shorinji sucks, and I'm like, sure, boxing and judo and mt and bjj etc etc, but I know better. While not a fast way to learn (and it does have a lot of old fashioned drills and exercises), the high ranked people I've seen are great fighters. And wrist locks don't work, yeah, that's The Correct, unless you are good, then they work just fine. Yukio did quit Shorinji and go to KK after he went back to Japan I heard.
Yukio vs Kurt King, maybe later, it's fucking 5:28AM
Last edited by patfromlogan; 5/02/2012 10:33am at .
"Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
Posted On:5/02/2012 1:34pm
Originally Posted by patfromlogan
People say Shorinji sucks, and I'm like, sure, boxing and judo and mt and bjj etc etc, but I know better. While not a fast way to learn (and it does have a lot of old fashioned drills and exercises), the high ranked people I've seen are great fighters.
If you recall that thread I linked in a past exchange (http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44702), Shorinji looks to have been a force to be reckoned with in the 70s, and if their cinematic footprint is any indication they were growingly popular at that time as well.
There seems to be a recurring theme in MA history of an art being established, flourishing, and then declining or plateauing or experiencing both in varying degrees. In my armchair ivory tower, no examples come to mind of something that has recaptured its initial potency later on. If a system as sophisticated as Judo can plateau or even decline in certain areas, does it seem surprising that one built on antiquated values would struggle to maintain popularity, turn to conservative behaviour, and thereby produce fewer remarkable fighters? I'm not intimately familiar with SK, but the scenario isn't unique.
And wrist locks don't work, yeah, that's The Correct, unless you are good, then they work just fine.
Attending some BJJ/MT classes recently, it's been yet another humble awakening. The last couple days I've had some small victories sparring, however. Although the copious amounts of sweat during grappling makes it easy to slip out of grabs around the wrist area, I was successful with a wristlock on Monday by pinning the elbow. I've also been able to catch the slower lower-torso roundhouses, and I've been having success just punting out the supporting leg. As for kicking hard bones, less success.
Last edited by DARPAChief; 5/02/2012 1:55pm at .
Posted On:6/11/2012 2:48pm
I saw the board surfer in the body surfing line up at Point Panic. By law it's only body surfing, though surfers often ride the inferior lefts, or on small uncrowded days, wait until a wave comes that the body surfers can't catch and then take. That's OK, but this guy was riding waves in the main lineup and it was pissing people off.
Bill W, a fiftyish Hawaiian body surfer started arguing with the surfer, who I will call punk, telling him to get the **** out of the body surfing area. Punk and Bill yelled at each other and I caught a wave and headed in. While showering I heard more shouting and saw Bill and Punk were standing by the Hau tree faced off. The tree has a circular ring of steps around it and Punk was a couple steps up, so he was looking down on Bill. Bill looked like he was still on the Kamehameha High School swim team; big chest and shoulders, narrow waist wearing black speedos. Punk was smaller and I thought, large old Hawaiian guy can handle idiot Punk. Then suddenly Punk got two friends to join him and it was three on one, and they were some ugly "mokes," (Hawaiian low class toughs) and starting to look bad.
So I walked over, pinched my shoulders behind me and stuck out my (already too large) stomach, looking as much as I could like an out-of-shape ha'ole no threat moron and said loudly, "Gee guys, you guys are just wrong and this guy (pointing at Bill) is morally correct." One ugly mother was then in my face screaming, "**** you, you fucking ha'ole!" and so forth. I put my hands out at my sides, palm out, and said, "Gosh, I don't want to fight, but he's right and you are wrong." Meanwhile I'm thinking, ************ reaches or starts to strike and it's osoto-gari (school yard trip), hopefully breaking his skull on the cement steps, side kick the guy in the middle... Then Bill said, "If you looked in the dictionary for punk, your picture would be on the page!" Punk bellowed something about how he was going to **** up Bill and Bill didn't walk up the steps to Punk, he jumped up the couple steps, landing in Punks face and yelled, "What are you going to do?"
Punk and asshole friends slinked off swearing and threatening us, with idiot ha'ole and tough Hawaiian, 3 on 2 wasn't good enough odds for assholes. Bill turned to me and asked, "Who are you?" I talked to him some and we parted friends. Turns out he's the main man (The Bull it's called, though usually it's an intimidating tough guy, rather than an educated thoughtful guy like Bill) at Point Panic, organizes contests, and knows all the champion body surfers that I know.
It's been at least fifteen years since this happened and still these days, when I'm on O'ahu and Panic is breaking, I swim out and often hear one of the regulars say, "Hey Pat, you back on da island?" And then I hear, "Hey take this one, this one for you," and get given the first big wave of a set.
Same kind of loyalty, sharing, and brotherhood I've found in some of the Hawaiian Kempo schools. Aloha; it ain't just tourist bullshit.
Posted On:6/11/2012 3:18pm
The only problem I have with this story is you said bill had on speedos, why is it men especially older ones think that it's ok to wear speedos?? Seriously shorts people, if your not a hot girl then shorts shorts shorts for fucks sake.
Posted On:6/11/2012 3:29pm
I may not look as cute as these girls, but when you're on a wave at Panic on a big, day....
Hey, as an old fat guy, speedos may be ugly, but it shows TOTAL dedication to the surf. Who gives a **** what anyone thinks when I get to go faster?
pro nonsense self defense
Posted On:6/11/2012 4:39pm
Style: FMA, WMA, doumbek
One time some guy yelled that he'd kick my dad's ass, and my dad answered "You'd better pack a lunch!".
Posted On:6/11/2012 5:54pm
Style: mma /boxing/muai thai
Got 300 bucks crimes comp from a guy who punched me in the head a few weeks back. My mate knocked him out.
Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.
Posted On:6/11/2012 8:03pm
Style: Kodokan Judo
I have not been in a fight since high school, and that was in a soccer practice, LOL.
Randori is another thing. After 30+ years in Judo, I've done a bit of that.
Going to elite training camps was always fun. When I was a lowly brown belt, I would travel with my sensei/coach to the USOTC for the US Open, Sports Festival, Olympic Trials, etc. There was usually/always a training camp, and in any case the teams were training before the event.
The first time I walked into the dojo at the OTC (in the basement, like all good judo dojo, LOL), the OTC team was training, with some other guys from around the US. Don't remember the exact even, but it was early 80s.
So two lightweights on the OTC team (a -60 and -65 kg guys..I won't mention names) were doing randori (standing.) 60 kg locks up 66 kg's arm and turns in for an Uchi Mata, full speed, pops the elbow and throws the guy for ippon.
I'm like WTF, looking at my sensei. He just gets this grim look on his face and shakes his head. He assigned a body guard for me to make sure I wouldn't work out with anyone who would hurt me (too badly). The guy would run up when I would approach a guy to randori and grab me and say, no, no, not with him, LOL. I still got the crap beat of me,by men and women alike. One guy threw me with Hane Goshi for 5 solid minutes. One female -48kg elite threw me with Tai otoshi the same way for the same amount of time. She was from GBR.
This happened every time I went there. I saw a Korean guy beating the crap out of everyone, throwing Uchi Mata and landing on them, hurting them (ribs). So my coach goes out and throws the guy with Uchi Mata, you could hear the ribs crack when they landed, put his hip right on the guy's floating ribs. Crawls off of mat, gets yelled at by the Korean coaches, picked up and stood against the wall and slapped the **** out of him for a while, yelling all the time.
A few years ago, I went to a USA Judo coaches conference. There was a Junior national training camp there at the time. I went to do some randori. had some fun with teenagers, then got a hold of an elite level adult (he was probably 19 or 20 at the time) US elite athlete. Nobody would work with him, so I grabbed him. Away we went. Lots of fun, very hard randori for sure. Then by some miracle I threw him for a solid ippon with seoi otoshi (ippon version). He amped it up a bit, we waltzed to the edge of the mat, and he slammed me onto the gym floor with a drop kata guruma, right in front of a bunch of teenager girl wallflower judoka. LOL, I was loving it, we went back out and hammered at each other for 2 more rounds, he would just say "lets go again, sensei?". No more on the floor, at least.
Lots more, but for the finale, how I learned to not give up to soon on shime waza.
Falling for Judo since 1980
Posted On:6/11/2012 8:30pm
How Not To Be Choked Out
I've probably posted this before here, but what the hell. Should really be, "How to Learn When to REally Give Up".
As a sankyu (brown belt) in Judo, I was doing pretty well. Started winning some matches (this after 1.5 years in Judo, started at 17 years old). But I kept losing to shime waza. Someone would sink a choke (usually a black belt),and I'd tap out right away more or less.
So my Japanese sensei (I had a home dojo and a dojo I travelled to 2 hours one way) had seen this a few time, and asked me in front of the class one night if I wanted to learn how not to be choked out. Me, being the eager student, was about to say "Yes please", but I saw my home dojo sensei tersely shaking his head off tot he side, so I said, "ah, no thanks, not right now". So, japanese sensei say that next time I lose to a shime waza, I dont have any choice if I want to keep doing judo in his dojo.
Lo an behold, there is a koten shiai (winner stay up) a few weeks later. Japanese sensei is there, refereeing. So, i make it through about 15 guys, winning all the matches. Last guy in line is a sandan, my size, who I can hang with pretty well. So we go round and round, I'm winning by yuko (minor score), hit the mat, he gets a choke and I tap out. Now, japanese sensei was refereeing the match. I think, WTF, I'm a dead man, as my home coach had explained the procedure.
Next Monday at the home dojo, we go through class, nothing is said. Whew! Next class is on Wed., my GF at the time shows up. We are training, and she say, hey, too bad you lost to Steve on Saturday, he choked you out, right? My coach goes, "Hey, that's right, you tapped way too soon". Well, japanese sensei finds out, but tells my home coach that HE has to go through the procedure with me. Crap.
So, for two weeks, 3 times a week, I did ne waza randori, after warm up, with a -95 kg 6'4" elite athlete. We would do so until he got a choke, and, choked me out. All the way. Then, I would recover, and we would discuss what happened, then, go to standup training.
As you can imagine, i was having nightmares about this. It was like I was fighting for my life every practice, 3 times a week. The beginning of the 3rd week, on Monday night, after getting choked out (it took almost 45 minutes for him to finally get me...I was getting better),i went home and had a very vivid dream about ne waza randori. Nothing specific, but in the dream, I told myself, "I'll kill that son of a bitch before I let him choke me out again". When I woke up, I knew that next practice, it was him or me. Now, that's of course kind of silly, but at the time, that's how I felt. I wasn't mad at him, really, something inside had just decided I had had enough.
So, next practice, we start to roll (we didn't call it rolling back then, LOL). 45 minutes goes by, no choke. I've escaped everything so far, sometimes just barely, and it's nonstop...no rest, I weigh 65 kg or so, and he's a sandan.). At about an hour, he is going absolutely full out shiai mode on me. Gets me in a cross lapel choke, I get one side clear enough to breath and get some blood to my brain, and I somehow manage to stand up. He still has the grip, though.
At that point, I'm literally frothing at the mouth. Everything went black and white, we are standing up grappling all over the small tatami area. I start trying to kick him in the knee, the balls, whatever I can reach, while I'm fighting off his efforts to crawl his hands back into position. He is artfully dodging all this. Finally he gets some leverage and starts driving me to the wall to pin me against it and finish the choke. As we head that way, I decide I'm going to go with it, resist hard right at the wall, the, drop down and attempt to slam his face into the wall, as the senior sensei had taught in our self defense lessons (yes, SD was integrated in to my first formative years of Judo).
As we get to the wall, I give one final bit of resistance, about to drop hard, and just as I start, he lets go and yells "STOP, IT'S OVER". I'm so amped up I take one more swing at him then took a while to come down from the adrenaline charge.
That was a defining moment in my Judo. I never tapped again to a choke in shiai, I just passed out. And I only got choked out once in shiai after that, at the US Open, in front of god and everybody, but I didn't care.
Thanks to my home sensei all those years ago for being skilled enough to help teach me that lesson. It was not pleasant thing for him to do,he revealed years later. He cared for me a lot, and that was just the tip of the iceberg as to the effort he put into my training, inside and outside the dojo.
Our senior sensei had to leave the dojo more than once in those 2 weeks, he couldn't take the superficial brutality of it,but knew i would not be injured so didn't stop it.
Posted On:6/12/2012 5:50pm
Style: Itinerant Wanderer
Originally Posted by patfromlogan
Hey, as an old fat guy, speedos may be ugly, but it shows TOTAL dedication to the surf. Who gives a **** what anyone thinks when I get to go faster?
I hear that if you paint your board red, it will go faster. Everyone knows red goes faster. :)
I don't have any good new fight stories. I already told them all. I did fight with a rock off Sandies yesterday, teaching the progeny how to boogie board. Rock 1, Knee 0.
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