228417 Bullies, 4195 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 71 to 80 of 83
Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ... 45678 9 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. FYT is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tilburg
    Posts
    17

    Posted On:
    9/29/2012 7:57am


     Style: Jujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    I don't get to claim I have BJJ lineage because the Brazilians brought BJJ to America. Yes, that is exactly what you are trying to do.
    No, that is what OTHERS here claim we do, WE always claimed to be DUTCH jujutsu! staring with a DUTCHMAN that eventually evolved in what we call Shin Tai Ryu jujutsu through Mark Sterke today. and it IS still Dutch jujutsu!
    Several of our teachers are also graded in Sho Sho Ryu/Muhen Yogan Ryu and teach this SEPERATLY from the Shin Tai Ryu curriculum.
    If you are referring to this..(Sho Sho/Muhen Yogan Ryu) then THIS lineage in Holland STARTS with Mark and then the other Shin Tai Ryu teachers who studied in Japan under Takahashi Shigeo and other Sho Sho Ryu teachers.
    Mark and the others HAVE a Mokuroku in these arts and the permission to represent Sho Sho and Muhen Yogan Ryu up to THAT level.
    http://www.shoshoryu.nl/Eerste%20mokuroku.jpg
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mokuroku

    +++++++++++++++++++

    Using non-Shin Tai Ryu Affiliated links until Shin Tai Ryu

    Judo/Jujutsu to Europe: Yukio Tani,
    http://www.jujitsu.no/english/tani1.html
    (Only these wrote books therefore considered documented start of Judo/jujutsu in Europe)

    Judo/Jujutsu to Holland: Pieter Toepoel
    http://www.bartitsu.org/index.php/tag/p-m-c-toepoel/

    Toepoel to Nieuwenhuizen.
    http://www.judo-snijders.nl/engels/h...utch-judo.html

    Start of DUTCH jujutsu: Maurice van Nieuwenhuizen,

    http://www.jbn.nl/nieuws/DU10214_Jud...d+70+jaar.aspx
    (started the official dutch organization JBN and NVJJL)

    Judo/Jujutsu to Tilburg: Cor van Unen
    Member of NVJJL http://www.nvjjl.nl/
    co-founded and taught at: http://www.judoklub-tilburg.nl/
    http://dwalendoorbrabant.nl/index.ph...owall=&start=1

    http://www.google.nl/imgres?um=1&hl=...1&tx=144&ty=38.

    Start of Shin Gi Tai: Jo Horsten (Mark Sterke's Teacher)
    Relation to JBN: http://www.jbn.nl/nieuws/archief/DU6...o+Horsten.aspx
    http://www.google.nl/imgres?um=1&hl=...1&tx=144&ty=38.

    Start of Shin Tai Ryu: Mark Sterke
    page 36 has Sterke, with Jo Horsten and the Sho Sho Ryu Grand master: Takahashi Shigeo
    http://shintairyu.nl/Shin%20tai%20ry...ductieboek.pdf

    Mark Sterke - Sho Sho Ryu
    Mark and the Sho Sho Ryu Grandmaster during a demonstration.
    http://static.lulu.com/browse/produc...resolution=320

    Contact the Sho Sho Ryu yourself for further proof
    http://www.nihonkobudokyoukai.org/martialarts/002/


    +++++++++++++++++++

    There's something strange about NOT being Koryu but still want to pass on teachings the way a Koryu would structure its program?
    It's no crime to choose how to teach and simulating an existing way.

    ++++++++++++++++++++

    Here come the misconceptions about Shin Tai Ryu and Koryu again, When only Sho Sho Ryu and Muhen Yogan Ryu are taught as Koryu.

    Shin Tai Ryu is just modern dutch Jujutsu and doesn't NEED to have Koryu fundamentals in its transmissions because its NOT Koryu.
    (The teachers simply added some niceties that resemble Koryu ways of doing things due to their experiences in japan for more fun experience for us students, but nowhere does Shin Tai Ryu claim to BE Koryu because of this.)

    The Sho Sho Ryu and Muhen Yogan Ryu DO however, but have nothing to do with the Shin Tai Ryu style and teachings and are taught Seperately from the Shin Tai Ryu curriculum...

    please don't confuse Shin Tai Ryu with Koryu !!!!!!
    Because We don't.

    ++++++++++++++++++++

    Shin Tai Ryu is a continuation of the Dutch jujutsu passed on since M. van Nieuwenhuizen see my first answer in this post.

    Existing techniques were improved upon, categorized in a new program on how to pass them on (katas) and thus evolved into Shin Tai Ryu jujutsu.
    (No Books, DVD's involved)

    I highly doubt a Koryu system would allow just anybody to REPRESENT them outside of Japan with little training or their own interpretations of it through books/videos.

    2nd row 2nd pic: Where this was declared.(Grand master on the left his wife, then Sterke.
    http://www.shintairyu.nl/Shin%20tai%...ieboek%205.jpg

    ++++++++++++++++++++++

    Shin Tai Ryu teaches Shin Tai Ryu jujutsu which is a version dutch jujutsu just like the germans have German Jujutsu and The U.S. American jujutsu.

    And Shin Tai Ryu is not named after an Existing traditional style.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++

    the History of dutch jujutsu in dutch from the official Dutch Judo/jujutsu website
    http://www.jbn.nl/judo/over+judo/cDU...enis+Judo.aspx
    YOU insist it is a mixture japanese,chinese, unknown influences.
    I believe they're all linked. therefore yes
    (even if some started independently they all came in contact with others through wars,duels and more peacefull ventures.)

    I hold that dutch Jujutsu... is whatever M. van Nieuwenhuizen taught.

    Lineage is based from teacher to student, who in turn can become a teacher teaching a next generation of students and so on.

    Only Sho Sho and Muhen Yogan Ryu are taught as Koryu

    The website loosely allows different affiliated schools to provide or ask for workshops to/from each other

    ++++++++++++++++++++

    Asayama Ichiden-ryu Jujutsu is a Koryu workshop I attended.

    These Koryu workshops were offered but I couldn't go at the time

    (http://www.koryubujutsu.eu/)
    Hozoin ryu Takada-ha
    Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto ryu
    Shinkage ryu

    Then there were the following workshops which I attended but do not know the heritage of.
    Nakoni-ryu Jujutsu
    Gyakudo Jujutsu
    Gyakudo Aikijujutsu
    Tatsu ryu Bushido. www.tatsu-ryu-bushido.com
    http://www.b-a-e.de/ajukate/
    http://www.yudansha.de/

    There are more.. but I suggest you contact the Shin Tai Ryu it self for that list of adresses.
    Last edited by FYT; 9/29/2012 8:18am at .
  2. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

    Administrator

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    34,013

    Posted On:
    9/29/2012 10:11am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FYT View Post
    No, that is what OTHERS here claim we do, WE always claimed to be DUTCH jujutsu! staring with a DUTCHMAN that eventually evolved in what we call Shin Tai Ryu jujutsu through Mark Sterke today. and it IS still Dutch jujutsu!
    Several of our teachers are also graded in Sho Sho Ryu/Muhen Yogan Ryu and teach this SEPERATLY from the Shin Tai Ryu curriculum.
    If you are referring to this..(Sho Sho/Muhen Yogan Ryu) then THIS lineage in Holland STARTS with Mark and then the other Shin Tai Ryu teachers who studied in Japan under Takahashi Shigeo and other Sho Sho Ryu teachers.
    Mark and the others HAVE a Mokuroku in these arts and the permission to represent Sho Sho and Muhen Yogan Ryu up to THAT level.
    http://www.shoshoryu.nl/Eerste%20mokuroku.jpg
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mokuroku

    +++++++++++++++++++

    Using non-Shin Tai Ryu Affiliated links until Shin Tai Ryu

    Judo/Jujutsu to Europe: Yukio Tani,
    http://www.jujitsu.no/english/tani1.html
    (Only these wrote books therefore considered documented start of Judo/jujutsu in Europe)

    Judo/Jujutsu to Holland: Pieter Toepoel
    http://www.bartitsu.org/index.php/tag/p-m-c-toepoel/

    Toepoel to Nieuwenhuizen.
    http://www.judo-snijders.nl/engels/h...utch-judo.html

    Start of DUTCH jujutsu: Maurice van Nieuwenhuizen,

    http://www.jbn.nl/nieuws/DU10214_Jud...d+70+jaar.aspx
    (started the official dutch organization JBN and NVJJL)

    Judo/Jujutsu to Tilburg: Cor van Unen
    Member of NVJJL http://www.nvjjl.nl/
    co-founded and taught at: http://www.judoklub-tilburg.nl/
    http://dwalendoorbrabant.nl/index.ph...owall=&start=1

    http://www.google.nl/imgres?um=1&hl=...1&tx=144&ty=38.

    Start of Shin Gi Tai: Jo Horsten (Mark Sterke's Teacher)
    Relation to JBN: http://www.jbn.nl/nieuws/archief/DU6...o+Horsten.aspx
    http://www.google.nl/imgres?um=1&hl=...1&tx=144&ty=38.

    Start of Shin Tai Ryu: Mark Sterke
    page 36 has Sterke, with Jo Horsten and the Sho Sho Ryu Grand master: Takahashi Shigeo
    http://shintairyu.nl/Shin%20tai%20ry...ductieboek.pdf

    Mark Sterke - Sho Sho Ryu
    Mark and the Sho Sho Ryu Grandmaster during a demonstration.
    http://static.lulu.com/browse/produc...resolution=320

    Contact the Sho Sho Ryu yourself for further proof
    http://www.nihonkobudokyoukai.org/martialarts/002/


    +++++++++++++++++++

    There's something strange about NOT being Koryu but still want to pass on teachings the way a Koryu would structure its program?
    It's no crime to choose how to teach and simulating an existing way.

    ++++++++++++++++++++

    Here come the misconceptions about Shin Tai Ryu and Koryu again, When only Sho Sho Ryu and Muhen Yogan Ryu are taught as Koryu.

    Shin Tai Ryu is just modern dutch Jujutsu and doesn't NEED to have Koryu fundamentals in its transmissions because its NOT Koryu.
    (The teachers simply added some niceties that resemble Koryu ways of doing things due to their experiences in japan for more fun experience for us students, but nowhere does Shin Tai Ryu claim to BE Koryu because of this.)

    The Sho Sho Ryu and Muhen Yogan Ryu DO however, but have nothing to do with the Shin Tai Ryu style and teachings and are taught Seperately from the Shin Tai Ryu curriculum...

    please don't confuse Shin Tai Ryu with Koryu !!!!!!
    Because We don't.

    ++++++++++++++++++++

    Shin Tai Ryu is a continuation of the Dutch jujutsu passed on since M. van Nieuwenhuizen see my first answer in this post.

    Existing techniques were improved upon, categorized in a new program on how to pass them on (katas) and thus evolved into Shin Tai Ryu jujutsu.
    (No Books, DVD's involved)

    I highly doubt a Koryu system would allow just anybody to REPRESENT them outside of Japan with little training or their own interpretations of it through books/videos.

    2nd row 2nd pic: Where this was declared.(Grand master on the left his wife, then Sterke.
    http://www.shintairyu.nl/Shin%20tai%...ieboek%205.jpg

    ++++++++++++++++++++++

    Shin Tai Ryu teaches Shin Tai Ryu jujutsu which is a version dutch jujutsu just like the germans have German Jujutsu and The U.S. American jujutsu.

    And Shin Tai Ryu is not named after an Existing traditional style.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++

    the History of dutch jujutsu in dutch from the official Dutch Judo/jujutsu website
    http://www.jbn.nl/judo/over+judo/cDU...enis+Judo.aspx
    YOU insist it is a mixture japanese,chinese, unknown influences.
    I believe they're all linked. therefore yes
    (even if some started independently they all came in contact with others through wars,duels and more peacefull ventures.)

    I hold that dutch Jujutsu... is whatever M. van Nieuwenhuizen taught.

    Lineage is based from teacher to student, who in turn can become a teacher teaching a next generation of students and so on.

    Only Sho Sho and Muhen Yogan Ryu are taught as Koryu

    The website loosely allows different affiliated schools to provide or ask for workshops to/from each other

    ++++++++++++++++++++

    Asayama Ichiden-ryu Jujutsu is a Koryu workshop I attended.

    These Koryu workshops were offered but I couldn't go at the time

    (http://www.koryubujutsu.eu/)
    Hozoin ryu Takada-ha
    Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto ryu
    Shinkage ryu

    Then there were the following workshops which I attended but do not know the heritage of.
    Nakoni-ryu Jujutsu
    Gyakudo Jujutsu
    Gyakudo Aikijujutsu
    Tatsu ryu Bushido. www.tatsu-ryu-bushido.com
    http://www.b-a-e.de/ajukate/
    http://www.yudansha.de/

    There are more.. but I suggest you contact the Shin Tai Ryu it self for that list of adresses.
    They have helped you try and right the ship, why would we contact them to hear you spiel from a different person?

    I suggest you shut the **** up, learn how to read, answer the real questions, learn how to research, go practice your made up Martial Art and realize re-wording the same ****, over and over, doesn't make it any more true than Two months ago. What did you do, eat a bowl of logical fallacies and wash them down with Kiss-Ass flavored Kool-aid?
    Quote Originally Posted by FYT View Post
    You guys obviously only focus on the name "Shin Tai Ryu".
    misinterpreting it and misinterpreting the claims made about what koryu system is taught

    even though I explained exactly what when and where....
    So I'm not gonna bother with your ignorance.

    None of you would ever try out the school becuz of your biased opinions.
    And thats just fine, I study there, I get to apply the techniques I learn there in another full contact sport I practice and they work.

    So go-on groaning and moaning about your interpretations as much as you like and may it satisfy whatever it is you're seeking.... couldn't care less.
    :Baww:
    Look at you moaning and groaning now.
  3. Vieux Normand is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4,271

    Posted On:
    9/29/2012 12:53pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DARPAChief View Post
    新古武道? Really?
    Where'd you learn to write in such flawless Dutch?
  4. DARPAChief is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    406

    Posted On:
    9/29/2012 1:00pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vieux Normand View Post
    Where'd you learn to write in such flawless Dutch?
    Do not twist my words or misinterpret my intentions!

    Anyway, I'll add some facts to the discussion. If by 'shin' one means 'new', then affixing that to 'kobudo' meaning 'old budo' is an interesting choice. Perhaps there is a series of M4 kata paired with the sword.

    Given the context, that seems like the obvious dubious term, but who knows, maybe it was the shin of friendliness, or prophecy...which was why I asked.
    Last edited by DARPAChief; 9/29/2012 1:13pm at .
  5. Vieux Normand is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4,271

    Posted On:
    9/29/2012 2:59pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DARPAChief View Post
    Do not twist my words or misinterpret my intentions!
    Didn't. I was twisting your intentions and misinterpreting your words.
  6. backatya is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    23

    Posted On:
    10/01/2012 3:53am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FYT View Post
    Several of our teachers are also graded in Sho Sho Ryu/Muhen Yogan Ryu and teach this SEPERATLY from the Shin Tai Ryu curriculum.
    If you are referring to this..(Sho Sho/Muhen Yogan Ryu) then THIS lineage in Holland STARTS with Mark and then the other Shin Tai Ryu teachers who studied in Japan under Takahashi Shigeo and other Sho Sho Ryu teachers.
    Mark and the others HAVE a Mokuroku in these arts and the permission to represent Sho Sho and Muhen Yogan Ryu up to THAT level.
    http://www.shoshoryu.nl/Eerste%20mokuroku.jpg
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mokuroku
    Isn't representing a school something else then teaching people? You are saying that Mark and other students have mokuroku in the Sho Sho Ryu and Muhen Yongan Ryu but as far as I know this only shows that a certain level is achieved, not that you are allowed to teach others. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    If my translation of Google is correct the following link shows a scroll showing Sho Sho Ryu and Muhen Yongan Ryu techniques not from these schools but from the Dutch Bu Jutsu Academy. Given to 'Max Vromans' (I think a student) given by the family head of the Shin Tai Ryu (If I'm correct this is Mark Sterk).

    http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shintairyu.nl %2FNambuhan%2520Kobudo.html&act=url

    So my question, is mr. Sterke creating its own scroll's with techniques of the Sho Sho Ryu and Muhen Yongan Ryu and given this as a reward?

    And a other question, is mr. Sterken given his teaching only based on mokuroku?
    Last edited by backatya; 10/01/2012 4:09am at . Reason: posted link
  7. FYT is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tilburg
    Posts
    17

    Posted On:
    10/01/2012 7:20am


     Style: Jujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DARPAChief View Post
    Do not twist my words or misinterpret my intentions!

    Anyway, I'll add some facts to the discussion. If by 'shin' one means 'new', then affixing that to 'kobudo' meaning 'old budo' is an interesting choice. Perhaps there is a series of M4 kata paired with the sword.

    Given the context, that seems like the obvious dubious term, but who knows, maybe it was the shin of friendliness, or prophecy...which was why I asked.
    Very good imitation, now just consistently keep repeating the same answers until it is clear that they are the only answers.

    Also: Shin kobudo refers to deceased (last generation died) or broken lineages (like a student departing from a Koryu without legitimate licenses) of old martial arts traditions (kobudo) that people are trying to revive (new) if enough material is available.

    Basically any martial art that's old..but not allowed to be considered Koryu.

    http://www.budo-club-limburgerhof.de...-Ichi-Ryu.html
    http://scottishfightingarts.webs.com...o-master-class

    Quote Originally Posted by backatya View Post
    Isn't representing a school something else then teaching people? You are saying that Mark and other students have mokuroku in the Sho Sho Ryu and Muhen Yongan Ryu but as far as I know this only shows that a certain level is achieved, not that you are allowed to teach others. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    If my translation of Google is correct the following link shows a scroll showing Sho Sho Ryu and Muhen Yongan Ryu techniques not from these schools but from the Dutch Bu Jutsu Academy. Given to 'Max Vromans' (I think a student) given by the family head of the Shin Tai Ryu (If I'm correct this is Mark Sterk).

    http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shintairyu.nl %2FNambuhan%2520Kobudo.html&act=url

    So my question, is mr. Sterke creating its own scroll's with techniques of the Sho Sho Ryu and Muhen Yongan Ryu and given this as a reward?

    And a other question, is mr. Sterken given his teaching only based on mokuroku?
    Yes a mokuroku shows that a certain level is achieved and up to THAT level, Mark and the others are allowed to represent these schools and instruct others with the consent of the Grand Masters in Japan.

    When these students reach the level to be eligible for a mokuroku in those Arts (mastery of the techniques in that catalog).
    Mark makes these scrolls as proof of their transmission.
    (being a mokuroku holder himself and sanctioned to have a branch dojo where the Sho Sho Ryu and Muhen Yongan Ryu techniques can be taught outside of Japan.)

    The student didn't study at the Sho Sho Ryu or Muhen yongan Ryu.
    But he studied the Sho Sho/Muhen Yongan ryu TECHNIQUES at the Dutch Bu Jutsu Academy under Sterke.
    (where the Koryu styles are taught outside of the Shin Tai Ryu)

    "Max Vromans" is one of the first students that got these teachings passed on from Mark.
    Should Max want to get a higher grading in these arts... he'll have to go to Japan.

    What do you mean with the last question? a mokuroku is just a catalog of techniques, Why he got it, is because he travelled to japan to study at the schools for them since somewhere in the 80's.
    So the Sho Sho and Muhen Yongan ryu techniques taught are ONLY the ones from the mokuroku stating what is ALLOWED to be taught by the holder.
  8. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

    Administrator

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    34,013

    Posted On:
    10/01/2012 7:38am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FYT View Post
    Very good imitation, now just consistently keep repeating the same OPINIONS until it is clear that they are the only OPINIONS.
    You misspelled opinions.

    Also: Shin kobudo refers to deceased (last generation died) or broken lineages (like a student departing from a Koryu without legitimate licenses) of old martial arts traditions (kobudo) that people are trying to revive (new) if enough material is available.

    Basically any martial art that's old..but not allowed to be considered Koryu.

    http://www.budo-club-limburgerhof.de...-Ichi-Ryu.html
    http://scottishfightingarts.webs.com...o-master-class



    Yes a mokuroku shows that a certain level is achieved and up to THAT level, Mark and the others are allowed to represent these schools and instruct others with the consent of the Grand Masters in Japan.

    When these students reach the level to be eligible for a mokuroku in those Arts (mastery of the techniques in that catalog).
    Mark makes these scrolls as proof of their transmission.
    (being a mokuroku holder himself and sanctioned to have a branch dojo where the Sho Sho Ryu and Muhen Yongan Ryu techniques can be taught outside of Japan.)

    The student didn't study at the Sho Sho Ryu or Muhen yongan Ryu.
    But he studied the Sho Sho/Muhen Yongan ryu TECHNIQUES at the Dutch Bu Jutsu Academy under Sterke.
    (where the Koryu styles are taught outside of the Shin Tai Ryu)

    "Max Vromans" is one of the first students that got these teachings passed on from Mark.
    Should Max want to get a higher grading in these arts... he'll have to go to Japan.

    What do you mean with the last question? a mokuroku is just a catalog of techniques, Why he got it, is because he travelled to japan to study at the schools for them since somewhere in the 80's.
    So the Sho Sho and Muhen Yongan ryu techniques taught are ONLY the ones from the mokuroku stating what is ALLOWED to be taught by the holder.
    How many years have you studied the Japanese language and are you fluent?
  9. backatya is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    23

    Posted On:
    10/01/2012 9:00am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FYT View Post
    So the Sho Sho and Muhen Yongan ryu techniques taught are ONLY the ones from the mokuroku stating what is ALLOWED to be taught by the holder.
    So please tell me if I understand this correctly, people who have been graduated and have received a mokuroku are allowed to teach in these techniques where mokuroku have been given for.
  10. backatya is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    23

    Posted On:
    10/04/2012 5:32am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was hoping for a response on my last post. Is there anyone else how can confirm or reject the given statement that a mokuroku is a graduation to teach all techniques within the given mokuroku?
Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ... 45678 9 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.