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  1. Nikorasu90 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2012 7:14am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Shaolin "Monks" aren't that full of s**t

    Is the entirety of Shaolin's history crap? True

    Is the current "Shaolin kung fu" nothing more than a rushed fabrication to appeal to the hollywood masses? True

    Are 99% of western teachers associating themselves with the word "Shaolin" cashing on the hype at best and outright frauds at worst? True.


    I won't deny any of those. However, I wanted to start a thread because I think Shaolin "monks" themselves aren't as full of **** as the industry they have more or less consciously helped to create.

    I train "Kung fu" with a Shaolin instructor. He used to be a touring monk, and had quite a bit of training in Sanda. I give to you that the fact he's calling his lessons "kung fu" is misleading, as what we learn is nothing more than half contemporary wushu, half Sanda.

    However, the point I'm getting to is that he's perfectly clear on what's useful and what isn't. The wushu part of the class is taught as nothing more than a workout and acrobatics, and he acknowledges that and justifies it as a form of body conditioning. When we step on the Leitai, the rules change. He once kicked my ass (literally) mid-flight because I tried to pull a jump kick, and told me it was useless in a real fight.

    I asked him if that's his personal, westernized approach to teaching and the answer was that not at all. Any Shaolin "monk" (note that I'm still using semicolons for the word monk, as they aren't true monks, but rather the "certified" martial artists that represent the Shaolin temple nowadays) will teach making a proper distinction between what's useful for competitions and fights (sanda) and what is just for show (Wushu/forms).

    It looks to me like the general consensus around here is that monks pretend or try to convince anyone that form-based combat is useful or even possible. My two cents is that, at least from a "real" monk, this isn't the case.

    Another point regarding the Chi Kung demonstrations. Well, Chi is obviously bullshit, and if they defend its existance is because of the lack of scientific education and culture to explain the mechanics a different way, but the "iron" demonstrations are sometimes true and quite impressive. I say sometimes because they're often mixed with bullshit (anyone can break a brick or a board) but some of the "monks" do really condition their bodies to freakish, insane degrees in order to pull off that stuff. So if you're looking to get a permanent deformation in exchange for the ability to take punches to the dick, there's that.

    So those are my two cents. The Shaolin industry is crap, so is their history, but the few chinese pseudo-monks that may have leaked to your country may be good, athletic martial artists (and good fighters if their focus was sanda) so I wouldn't rule them out immediately.

    Anyway, you're welcome to disagree and flame me to death (not that I'd expect otherwise, given my post count).
  2. thejon is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2012 11:34am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just regarding the "iron" stuff. Read American Shaolin. It's really an amazing book; guy goes to train in a "Shaolin Temple", ends up learning (and becoming decent at) Sanda instead, because all the monks there know that the "Kung-Fu" they do is putting on shows for tourists, and this tall, lanky ass white kid from America is never going to be able to jump that high.

    There's a monk there called Monk Dong who practiced "iron crotch". Apparently he 'practiced' by slamming his junk in a drawer for an hour or so each day. Not so much "my jewels are made of iron" as "I have killed all nerves which used to live in my balls". Freakish, insane degrees is a bit of an understatement; I'd say.

    There's pictures of him pulling a rock with a rope attached between his legs. Dedication...I guess I can say that much!

    Edit: I found the picture! In color, no less!
    Last edited by thejon; 4/26/2012 11:36am at . Reason: Found the Picture!
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/26/2012 11:38am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikorasu90 View Post
    Is the entirety of Shaolin's history crap? True

    Is the current "Shaolin kung fu" nothing more than a rushed fabrication to appeal to the hollywood masses? True
    False.

    Are 99% of western teachers associating themselves with the word "Shaolin" cashing on the hype at best and outright frauds at worst? True.
    False.

    I won't deny any of those. However, I wanted to start a thread because I think Shaolin "monks" themselves aren't as full of **** as the industry they have more or less consciously helped to create.
    Stop
    I train "Kung fu" with a Shaolin instructor. He used to be a touring monk, and had quite a bit of training in Sanda. I give to you that the fact he's calling his lessons "kung fu" is misleading, as what we learn is nothing more than half contemporary wushu, half Sanda.
    Embarrassing

    However, the point I'm getting to is that he's perfectly clear on what's useful and what isn't. The wushu part of the class is taught as nothing more than a workout and acrobatics, and he acknowledges that and justifies it as a form of body conditioning. When we step on the Leitai, the rules change. He once kicked my ass (literally) mid-flight because I tried to pull a jump kick, and told me it was useless in a real fight.
    Yourself

    I asked him if that's his personal, westernized approach to teaching and the answer was that not at all. Any Shaolin "monk" (note that I'm still using semicolons for the word monk, as they aren't true monks, but rather the "certified" martial artists that represent the Shaolin temple nowadays) will teach making a proper distinction between what's useful for competitions and fights (sanda) and what is just for show (Wushu/forms).
    Now.

    It looks to me like the general consensus around here is that monks pretend or try to convince anyone that form-based combat is useful or even possible. My two cents is that, at least from a "real" monk, this isn't the case.
    Search

    Another point regarding the Chi Kung demonstrations. Well, Chi is obviously bullshit, and if they defend its existance is because of the lack of scientific education and culture to explain the mechanics a different way, but the "iron" demonstrations are sometimes true and quite impressive. I say sometimes because they're often mixed with bullshit (anyone can break a brick or a board) but some of the "monks" do really condition their bodies to freakish, insane degrees in order to pull off that stuff. So if you're looking to get a permanent deformation in exchange for the ability to take punches to the dick, there's that.
    Function

    So those are my two cents. The Shaolin industry is crap, so is their history, but the few chinese pseudo-monks that may have leaked to your country may be good, athletic martial artists (and good fighters if their focus was sanda) so I wouldn't rule them out immediately.

    Anyway, you're welcome to disagree and flame me to death (not that I'd expect otherwise, given my post count).
    Noob.

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=92178
  4. csharp.negative is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2012 12:34pm


     Style: 1 technique 1000 times

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikorasu90 View Post
    Is the current "Shaolin kung fu"

    Are 99% of western teachers associating themselves with the word "Shaolin"


    I won't deny any of those. However, I wanted to start a thread because I think Shaolin "monks"

    I train "Kung fu" "kung fu"

    "monk" (note that I'm still using semicolons for the word monk, as they aren't true monks, but rather the "certified" martial artists that represent the Shaolin temple nowadays)

    It looks to me like the general consensus around here is that monks pretend or try to convince anyone that form-based combat is useful or even possible. My two cents is that, at least from a "real"

    Another point regarding the Chi Kung demonstrations. Well, Chi is obviously bullshit, and if they defend its existance is because of the lack of scientific education and culture to explain the mechanics a different way, but the "iron" "monks"
    "I'm still using semicolons"
    "semicolons"
    ;semicolons;

    D;
  5. Nikorasu90 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2012 12:38pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by csharp.negative View Post
    "I'm still using semicolons"
    "semicolons"
    ;semicolons;

    D;
    My bad, I translated that wrong from my mother tongue.
  6. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2012 1:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikorasu90 View Post
    Is the entirety of Shaolin's history crap? True

    Is the current "Shaolin kung fu" nothing more than a rushed fabrication to appeal to the hollywood masses? True

    Are 99% of western teachers associating themselves with the word "Shaolin" cashing on the hype at best and outright frauds at worst? True.


    I won't deny any of those. However, I wanted to start a thread because I think Shaolin "monks" themselves aren't as full of **** as the industry they have more or less consciously helped to create.

    I train "Kung fu" with a Shaolin instructor. He used to be a touring monk, and had quite a bit of training in Sanda. I give to you that the fact he's calling his lessons "kung fu" is misleading, as what we learn is nothing more than half contemporary wushu, half Sanda.

    However, the point I'm getting to is that he's perfectly clear on what's useful and what isn't. The wushu part of the class is taught as nothing more than a workout and acrobatics, and he acknowledges that and justifies it as a form of body conditioning. When we step on the Leitai, the rules change. He once kicked my ass (literally) mid-flight because I tried to pull a jump kick, and told me it was useless in a real fight.

    I asked him if that's his personal, westernized approach to teaching and the answer was that not at all. Any Shaolin "monk" (note that I'm still using semicolons for the word monk, as they aren't true monks, but rather the "certified" martial artists that represent the Shaolin temple nowadays) will teach making a proper distinction between what's useful for competitions and fights (sanda) and what is just for show (Wushu/forms).

    It looks to me like the general consensus around here is that monks pretend or try to convince anyone that form-based combat is useful or even possible. My two cents is that, at least from a "real" monk, this isn't the case.

    Another point regarding the Chi Kung demonstrations. Well, Chi is obviously bullshit, and if they defend its existance is because of the lack of scientific education and culture to explain the mechanics a different way, but the "iron" demonstrations are sometimes true and quite impressive. I say sometimes because they're often mixed with bullshit (anyone can break a brick or a board) but some of the "monks" do really condition their bodies to freakish, insane degrees in order to pull off that stuff. So if you're looking to get a permanent deformation in exchange for the ability to take punches to the dick, there's that.

    So those are my two cents. The Shaolin industry is crap, so is their history, but the few chinese pseudo-monks that may have leaked to your country may be good, athletic martial artists (and good fighters if their focus was sanda) so I wouldn't rule them out immediately.

    Anyway, you're welcome to disagree and flame me to death (not that I'd expect otherwise, given my post count).
    There was a time where we quickly told noobs who made post like this with a lot of erros to "STFU noob" this post just made me miss those days.
    ______
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    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
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  7. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2012 1:52pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So your apologist rant that was in favor of the Shaolin monks is "maybe these guys in parenthesis are only mostly full of ****"?

    WHERE CAN I SIGN UP?!?!?
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/26/2012 2:46pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I tried to pull a jump kick, and told me it was useless in a real fight.




    Now, it has a limited success rate and can leave you open to reversals, but your instructor is wrong.
  9. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2012 4:18pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Maybe his coach was referring to his specific jump kick at the time as being useless.
  10. Nikorasu90 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2012 4:44pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Maybe his coach was referring to his specific jump kick at the time as being useless.
    Yes, pretty much. It was a stupid kick at the time (I telegraphed like hell)

    For the record, I did read American shaolin.

    To everyone else: Care to highlight the errors in my thread? I might be a noob at the forums but that doesn't mean I am completely clueless about the art I practice.

    I have been to China for a brief training at Fa Wang, which gave me a perspective I bet not all of you have.
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