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  1. Nikorasu90 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2012 2:13pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Is my dream bullshido-free?

    Hi guys!

    First of all and as means of introduction I would like to thank this site for clearing up a lot of misconceptions about martial arts for me. I feel enlightened now thanks to this and other internet resources.

    I don't really regret my 6 years of Aikido. I know they're absolutely useless if **** were to hit the fan, but I had fun doing it so there's that. Same with some Shotokan lessons I took.

    Anyway, I'm planning to move on and train some honest, earthbound art or combat sport now, and the cards I'm shuffling are boxing, kickboxing, Sanda or BJJ, although I'll probably choose among the former three since I think my body is better fit for a striker. There are enough gyms to choose from around here in the Netherlands so I'll do fine.

    So where is my problem you may ask? Well, I've managed to give up the orientalist farce that anything traditional is inherently better, but there is still a traditional-to-the-bone art that I can't let go. After personally "debunking" most styles of kung fu and concluding they don't work by nowadays standards, there is still one that won't go: Baji Quan. I can't help but watch the videos on its practical applications and think "wow, that looks good". "Hey, why don't they do that in MMA?" and so on.

    I'm talking about stuff like this (EDIT: I can't post links, just search youtube for "Baji Quan fight seminar 2010: best moments"). I am in love with demonstrations such as what you can see in that video. So I've decided, hopefully not to my future disappointment, that I am going to learn Baji Quan and try to incorporate it to my western combat sport/art of choice.

    This is going to be a hard thing to do because it's a really difficult style to find. I might take an Erasmus to Italy and I've seen there is a master there so that may be my chance, or otherwise I'll have to travel to Mengcun to learn at its cradle.

    Anyway, the point of all this thread is to ask you, the more experienced, bullshido-free fighters, if my dream is a romantic ideal that won't get me anywhere, or if you think training in Baji could add anything worthwile to a contemporary fighter.

    Note this has nothing to do with my appreciation with Chinese culture (which I am fascinated with, but that's a separate issue) my belief on the concept of Chi or similar (which I don't have, although to its credit Baji seems to relay little in that). It's just that those elbows, full-body strikes, shoulder checks, short range techniques look great to me.

    What do you think?

    EDIT: A little extra info: I do want to get "real" experience through a lot of sparring, but I don't plan to compete so I will probably never spar unprotected, 100% contact.
    Last edited by Nikorasu90; 4/22/2012 2:18pm at .
  2. nils is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2012 2:33pm


     Style: FormerShotokan,Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I suppose this is the video you talked about?


    Never heard of Baji Quan, but this video had a few red flags for my taste, e.g. no resistance in training, defending against stupid attacks (grabbing the arm without doing anything, etc.):


    If you want it traditional, you maybe want to look if there is one of the (few) good kyokushin-kai-karate dojos near you. Also you could visit the Baji Quan guys and tell us how it was. Furthermore, you could cross-train.

    But then, why do you insist of training traditional? What parts of those arts are important to you and canīt be done by yourself personally (e.g. I knew this gal who thought shotokan is crap, but loved the philosophical and meditative aspects of it. But those could also be done independently from training)?

    Welcome to the forum. Now I will shut up and wait for people having actual experience with Baji Quan

    P.S.: do you have a link to the homepage of the dojo you want to go to?
  3. Nikorasu90 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2012 2:40pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah well don't take the training itself too seriously there: It was an international seminar gathering people with no experience (or so I believe) so what you see is a demonstration, someone explaining the techniques for the first time.

    I don't really care that much about training traditional. The thing with Baji Quan is that many of its principles sound right to me, like... Instinctively right.

    For instance, I see it logical and beautiful to step in range and unleash an elbow powered through full hip rotation, specially because at that range it's probably hard to see at which height it's coming. This is just theorycrafting of course, and I'm a **** fighter so I have no experience to tell, but it just feels... Real, to me.

    Some of the techniques I see don't impress me as much (mostly the standing grapples) but everything having to do with closing the distance, "opening" the opponent's guard and force projection looks great.

    Going with another of this guy's videos (he seems to be the one with most out), "European Baji meeting 2009: how to stop a hooligan", it makes sense to me to close the gap very fast keeping your head protected, so you can fight at a range you are specifically trained for and for which your opponent has no experience at all (much like the ground grapplers annihilate anyone who doesn't know what grappling is about). It seems to me as if you manage to get in real close, your elbows and short-range strikes are going to put in trouble anyone who doesn't know how to strike properly at that range.
    Last edited by Nikorasu90; 4/22/2012 2:44pm at .
  4. nils is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2012 2:48pm


     Style: FormerShotokan,Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
  5. weechey is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2012 11:58pm


     Style: TKD BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Isn't Lord Asia a Baji guy? He also does BJJ too. My understanding is that in the past Kung Fu guys cross trained regularly ... it's only in the last few decades that people got it stuck in their heads that cross training in Kung Fu is a bad thing. Anyway, search the Bullshido site for vids of Asia fighting ... that may give you a flavor of how your dream gets realized. Omega the Supreme is also a Kung Fu guy who cross trains quite a lot, and he got a pretty good MMA record too.
  6. ZenMMA is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/23/2012 12:14am


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I trained Baji for a very short period of time, a lot of it involves foot stomping and breaking you opponents balance...One of the things that I found was that the guard seemed to be non existent. (most moves I was taught ended with the guard at waist height.

    To be fair I only trained this for about a month or so, and the training involved no sparring just the inane repetition of these foot stomping lead moves, so really my opinion should be taken with less than a pinch of salt.

    I do remember one move that was funny, it was called (explained to me by another student) something like the double pimple slap and basically looked like an open handed windmill punch.
  7. Nikorasu90 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/23/2012 2:14am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, what you describe is NOT what I'm looking for. What lineage of Baji were you practicing? Seems you got the short end of the stick.

    Here is another gym at, I believe, France, doing some drills, and as you can see they have a decent guard (to be doing pad work at least). Note that I'm not praising the people on the video or analyzing their ability. I'm not sure how far into their learning they are. But the techniques themselves, they look sound to me.

    My favourite is around 1:55. I love how the body twists and conceals the lower height elbow, while the right hand protects the face (although raising it a bit more would be good I guess).



    I think this instructor also learned at Mengcun, but I'm not sure.
    Last edited by Nikorasu90; 4/23/2012 2:24am at .
  8. gregaquaman is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/23/2012 3:04am

    Join us... or die
     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No dont do it.

    Go find the martial art you want to train in and do that. This being half present in a style while being half present in another style is not only less effective but will make you a bloody irritating person to be around.

    Do two styles fine. But learn both styles as sepparate units.
    Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
    http://www.facebook.com/#!/WhitsundayMartialArts
  9. Nikorasu90 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/23/2012 3:23am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gregaquaman View Post
    No dont do it.

    Go find the martial art you want to train in and do that. This being half present in a style while being half present in another style is not only less effective but will make you a bloody irritating person to be around.

    Do two styles fine. But learn both styles as sepparate units.
    Oh... Yeah of course >< sorry for not making that clear. I'm not going to be the annoying guy that insists on using elbows on a boxing sparring session, and I'm not going to throw jabs while training traditional Baji.

    The "mixing" of both styles would be more of an internal thing to me. So like you said, learning them both separate, and then apply the principles of both once I'm good at them.

    But for that to happen I wanted to make sure the art is wortwhile.
  10. gregaquaman is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/23/2012 6:08am

    Join us... or die
     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Cool.
    just bear in mind thai also has some funky elbows if that is what you want to look at.
    Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
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