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  1. SpamN'Cheese is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/04/2012 6:04am


     Style: Karate, Boxing, BJJ noob

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CJaKfOrEsT View Post
    Wow...you guys really love to jump on every comment, don't you. I was merely trying to say that Keysi guys are trained to think outside the box, regarding where to hit, and what with. A combination might start off wrenching someone's arm as they try to grab you, followed by a elbow to the shoulder joint, extending to a hammer fist to inside of the thigh of the rear leg (baring in mind that he his standing behind his assailant, at this point), then an elbow to the kidney, and a punch to the chest, from over the shoulder, extending into a one armed sleeper hold, while the other arm monitors for other potential assailants...and all done with the fluidity of a boxer's "jab, cross, hook". "At will" meaning "whenever you want to"..."top if the head, to the bottom of the foot" meaning all over the body.
    So it's some reality based thing "4 t3h $tr33tz"? The real deal hall of feel? Judging from the vids I've just seen, it's not unique, and I'm not impressed. Just my two cents.
  2. CJaKfOrEsT is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/04/2012 6:24am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    So I figured, like, most beginners who admit they view things from an "armchair perspective," you made the same beginner fallacy we all have made. You tried something you enjoyed and suddenly, you are trying to correlate it to other arts. It doesn't work that way at all. Hence my comment of "armchair never mind." You are an armchair person, in the three arts I named, or you would never try to build your current fallacy.
    Alright, I'll give you that I have no experience in Judo, but I did boxing for 5 years, BJJ for 8 years, Krav Maga for 3 years and have been training in various Filipino styles and Muay Thai for the past 20 or so years (amongst many others, my instructor trained under Dan Inosanto, Bob Breen, and Master Toddy...interestingly, KFM co-founder Andy Norman did also).

    I offered up some observations based on personal observations, conversation with the instructor at the seminar, who was one of KFMs first black belts, and personal student of Norman, and comments made by friends that train in KFM. Not only that, my comments were about a system very similar to to the primary one that I train.

    The only reason that I mentioned the "armchair perspective" was to admit that I'm not a KFM expert, in order to contextualize my comments. If this was a discussion on Shotokan, and Tai Chi, for example, I wouldn't make such observations, as they are arts vastly different from what I've experienced.

    Is that fair?
  3. CJaKfOrEsT is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/04/2012 6:29am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SpamN'Cheese View Post
    So it's some reality based thing "4 t3h $tr33tz"? The real deal hall of feel? Judging from the vids I've just seen, it's not unique, and I'm not impressed. Just my two cents.
    Well, everyone's entitled to their own opinion.
  4. ermghoti is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/04/2012 8:44am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ+Sanda

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CJaKfOrEsT View Post
    A combination might start off wrenching someone's arm as they try to grab you, followed by a elbow to the shoulder joint, extending to a hammer fist to inside of the thigh of the rear leg (baring in mind that he his standing behind his assailant, at this point), then an elbow to the kidney, and a punch to the chest, from over the shoulder, extending into a one armed sleeper hold, while the other arm monitors for other potential assailants...and all done with the fluidity of a boxer's "jab, cross, hook".

    "At will" meaning "whenever you want to"..."top if the head, to the bottom of the foot" meaning all over the body.
    You'd like Yellow Bamboo.
    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
  5. SpamN'Cheese is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/04/2012 10:27am


     Style: Karate, Boxing, BJJ noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CJaKfOrEsT View Post
    Well, everyone's entitled to their own opinion.
    OP, what made you want to train in Keysi and Krav Maga? I'm curious.
  6. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/04/2012 11:55am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SpamN'Cheese View Post
    OP, what made you want to train in Keysi and Krav Maga? I'm curious.
    I lives in a world of fantasy
  7. BJMills is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/04/2012 1:01pm


     Style: Muay Thai/Wrestling

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CJaKfOrEsT View Post
    I can understand that.

    Regarding sparring I guess it comes down to the long running debate, regarding whether or not to spar...when it comes to "combatives", as opposed to "sports martial arts". At my club, we do spar, but it is more of the exception, than the rule.
    The 'sparring debate' is roughly equivalent to the creationism debate, it's not really a debate, just a vocal group of people who refuse to concede their world view to the copious amounts of evidence that demonstrate otherwise.

    You don't learn how to ride a bike, swim, drive a car, play the piano, or any other human activity in life without actually doing the activity you want to get good at, yet somehow fighting is different?

    And yes we all know, sparring is not fighting. Driving on the freeway is not NASCAR, but if you can't even handle normal freeway traffic you're never ever going to race on a track. In martial arts you either apply your training to fully resisting opponents or you don't. Those that do develop the ability to effectively execute them outside of a predetermined outcome, those that don't, don't.

    On a side note, funny that KFM guys are JKD based when Bruce Lee was a big advocate of sparring while they are not. It's like a judo offshoot that has all kinds of unique and fancy throws but doesn't actually test them in competition against other judoka.
  8. ermghoti is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/04/2012 1:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ+Sanda

    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My mood has soured as the day has progressed. You'll do.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaKOfFfEsT View Post
    A combination might start off wrenching someone's arm as they try to grab you,
    Oh, it might start like that. If, you know, the guy that tried to grab you refused to resist in any way whatsoever, rather than pulling away, or punching you in your empty head.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaKOfFfEsT View Post
    followed by a elbow to the shoulder joint,
    The shoulder being a well-known area of susceptibility to strikes.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaKOfFfEsT View Post
    extending to a hammer fist to inside of the thigh of the rear leg
    Extending? Your forearm is four feet long? You're holding him in a shoulder lock, and striking the inside of the thigh? To accomplish what? Leg kicks add up after a few, but your physiologically impossible swat will carry no energy, since you can't dedicate your legs or torso to the strike, due to the fact you've pinioned yourself to his arm. And the back leg? Which leg is going to be the back leg, if he's not standing there like the statue of some frightening homeless minority? What if it's the far leg, you're going to swing an underhand chop between you and your opponent? Good thing he's completely motionless though. That's really working to your advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaKOfFfEsT View Post
    (baring in mind that he his standing behind his assailant, at this point),
    Ah. of course. You're behind him now. He is frozen in place, wondering "WHAT WIZARDRY IS THIS!?!? WHERE HAS HE GONE TO!?!?" as you run through your idiotic dance routine.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaKOfFfEsT View Post
    then an elbow to the kidney
    DISAPPEARED HE HAS!! WHAT ARE THESE PAINS IN MY BODY?

    Quote Originally Posted by JaKOfFfEsT View Post
    and a punch to the chest, from over the shoulder,
    You fucking imbecile. I'm not even going to detail the mechanical impossibility of this alleged strike being in any way effective. I'm not even sure the strike that might be possible to even land could reasonably be called a punch. It's just too damned stupid to think about. While you're in the general area, why don't you pinch the guy's nipple? He might like it, and it could curry enough favor to keep him from killing you.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaKOfFfEsT View Post
    extending into a one armed sleeper hold,
    MY BREATH HAS BEEN TAKEN FROM ME! WHY, GOD? WHY ARE YOU PUNISHING ME?!?!?

    while the other arm monitors for other potential assailants...
    One arm for the shoulder lock, one arm for the fantasy choke, one arm to monitor the multiple assailants that stood around while you dirty danced around the unresisting first assailant. You have extra limbs in your imaginary defensive scenarios? Is the one growing out of your shin used to strike the inner thigh back in step 3 or whatever the **** it was? Or you think you're holding a one-armed choke on a standing opponent? I'm not sure which is stupider.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaKOfFfEsT View Post
    and all done with the fluidity of a boxer's "jab, cross, hook".
    Maybe, if you practice enough, and, more importantly, IF THE FUCKING GUY DOESN'T"T RESIST OR EVEN FUCKING MOVE. A boxing combo assumes nothing from the opponent, and keeps the attacker covered against counter attacks. A grappling combo proceeds from one position of control to another, with awareness of moments of opportunity for escape at key points. LARPy fighting moves and video game combos assume, "hey, this should work! It says it'll work in the book!"

    Quote Originally Posted by JaKOfFfEsT View Post
    "At will" meaning "whenever you want to"..."top if the head, to the bottom of the foot" meaning all over the body.
    "Training compliant" means you don't know that none of this **** will work. Not even a little.
    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/04/2012 2:16pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CJaKfOrEsT View Post

    I offered up some observations based on personal observations, conversation with the instructor at the seminar, who was one of KFMs first black belts, and personal student of Norman, and comments made by friends that train in KFM. Not only that, my comments were about a system very similar to to the primary one that I train.

    The only reason that I mentioned the "armchair perspective" was to admit that I'm not a KFM expert, in order to contextualize my comments. If this was a discussion on Shotokan, and Tai Chi, for example, I wouldn't make such observations, as they are arts vastly different from what I've experienced.

    Is that fair?
    Yes if I ignore EVERYTHING else in your post. I didn't. You ignored everything, but one little part in mine.

    You must be a purple or Brown Belt in BJJ right? I mean you do have 8 years.
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/04/2012 2:21pm

    staff
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    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CJaKfOrEsT View Post
    Wow...you guys really love to jump on every comment, don't you.
    Someone please explain this to me. It is getting irritating because even senior members are doing this ****.

    If you don't want it addressed, don't type it out. I love when people are shocked that "you jumped, addressed, talked, commented, complained" about their point, "when this is what I really meant." Then type what you mean and support it with facts not fallacies.
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