Keysi Fighting Method ?

[CJaKfOrEsT]

Injuries with BJJ, Judo, and boxing. I do not know where you......oh armchair......nevermind.

No injuries in your armchair. ;) For those others that have trouble reading for themselves...

...looking into KFM for about 6 months now, from an armchair perspective, watching videos, etc, but attended my first class in Melbourne, at a seminar run by Graham Good...(emphasis added)

SO yeah...I do have first hand experience of training both KM and KFM, and know many others that have also done so (none of my KM training was in an armchair). Sure injuries occur in other arts, but usually when something goes wrong (didn't tap early enough in BJJ, guard too low Boxing, didn't break your fall properly in Judo, poorly executed stick drill, or wrong protective gear in Kali/Escrima, etc) but with KM and KFM, the nature of their conditioning means that you get hurt when doing things properly (Muay Thai fits into the same category). My point was to say that KFM is a system that prides itself on teaching its students how to defend themselves in the street, but let's see how a 60 year old's knees cope with all the bobbing and weaving. In other words, it's a young man's art (is there an echo here???).

Compare this with something like Michael Janich's MBC, and Dammithurt Silat, as a modified Filipino/Indonesian art, and you'll see what I mean. I once heard Ron Balicki comment that one of the best thing about Panantuken is that it evolves with the practitioner, in that when young men practiced it, it resembled kickboxing, where an old man could do so, requiring less physicality.

[CrackFox]

So possibly the biggest problem with judo is the very high injury rate, and you're telling me Kesi and Krav are even worse?

If that was genuinely the case, then anyone interested in self defence - e.g. staying safe - would do best to avoid them as the chance of serious injury must be through the roof.

[captainbirdseye]

SO yeah...I do have first hand experience of training both KM and KFM, and know many others that have also done so (none of my KM training was in an armchair). Sure injuries occur in other arts, but usually when something goes wrong (didn't tap early enough in BJJ, guard too low Boxing, didn't break your fall properly in Judo, poorly executed stick drill, or wrong protective gear in Kali/Escrima, etc) but with KM and KFM, the nature of their conditioning means that you get hurt when doing things properly (Muay Thai fits into the same category).

There's a difference between being injured and being hurt.

The problem you seem to be alluding to is that (in my experience, at least) the Krav crowd are a bunch of uncoordinated spazzes.

[MrBadGuy]

For myself, KFM can be best described as "modified Panantuken". If you've ever seen the kind of stuff that the likes of Inosanto and Balicki teach, consider that, with less of the fancy hubud stuff. It's also similar to Muay Thai, except instead of generating power by rotating on a horizontal arc, they do so be bobbing and weaving on more of a vertical plane. This lends itself attacking all over the body, from the top if the head, to the bottom of the foot, at will.

This lends itself attacking all over the body, from the top if the head, to the bottom of the foot, at will.

to the bottom of the foot, at will.

the bottom of the foot, at will.

Who the **** wants to attack the bottom of someone's foot?

EVEN MORE SO, HOW DO YOU DO THIS AT WILL?

Jedi Mind tricks? Do you politely ask your opponent to lift their foot so you can attack the bottom of it? And why? I keep coming back to that. Why attack the bottom of their foot? If you can attack any part of them, AT WILL NO LESS, why the **** would you choose the bottom of their foot?

I don't get it. Even if you're Batman, why? Unless you're fighting a robot, and there's a self destruct button hidden on the bottom of its foot, I can think of no other reason. This has ruined the rest of my day, because I'll be pondering the implications of your statement.

[Permalost]

Hell, I've even seen people dropping their whole bodyweight repeatedly onto the bottoms of their OWN feet AGAINST THE STREET! They must've been doing some highly advanced kung fu conditioning.

[It is Fake]

No injuries in your armchair. ;) For those others that have trouble reading for themselves...

Oh my reading is fine, you are the one that doesn't understand what you wrote.

Criticisms: Like Krav Maga, it really is a young man's art, requiring its practitioners to be super fit, and prone to injuries.

So, I was naming arts that are injury prone and eliminating the "it is a young man's art" fallacy.

SO yeah...I do have first hand experience of training both KM and KFM, and know many others that have also done so (none of my KM training was in an armchair).

Let's see who said armchair?

I've been looking into KFM for about 6 months now, from an armchair perspective, watching videos, etc, but attended my first class in Melbourne, at a seminar run by Graham Good

Wow, you did.

So I figured, like, most beginners who admit they view things from an "armchair perspective," you made the same beginner fallacy we all have made. You tried something you enjoyed and suddenly, you are trying to correlate it to other arts. It doesn't work that way at all. Hence my comment of "armchair never mind." You are an armchair person, in the three arts I named, or you would never try to build your current fallacy.

Sure injuries occur in other arts, but usually when something goes wrong (didn't tap early enough in BJJ, guard too low Boxing, didn't break your fall properly in Judo, poorly executed stick drill, or wrong protective gear in Kali/Escrima, etc) but with KM and KFM, the nature of their conditioning means that you get hurt when doing things properly (Muay Thai fits into the same category).

See, I did read it correctly, you were building this fallacy. BJJ, Boxing and Judo fit your criteria.

My point was to say that KFM is a system that prides itself on teaching its students how to defend themselves in the street, but let's see how a 60 year old's knees cope with all the bobbing and weaving. In other words, it's a young man's art

I knew EXACTLY what your point was and I named three arts to contradict your passive, unvoiced, assertion. You voiced it and you are wrong.

(is there an echo here???).

Not if you step outside of your own head.

Compare this with something like Michael Janich's MBC, and Dammithurt Silat, as a modified Filipino/Indonesian art, and you'll see what I mean. I once heard Ron Balicki comment that one of the best thing about Panantuken is that it evolves with the practitioner, in that when young men practiced it, it resembled kickboxing, where an old man could do so, requiring less physicality.

No, I'm not comparing it with anything. Every art evolves with the person except for the ones full of bullshido.. There are hundreds off BJJ, Judo and Boxing videos that support my assertions.

[Azatdawn]

Who the **** wants to attack the bottom of someone's foot?

EVEN MORE SO, HOW DO YOU DO THIS AT WILL?

Jedi Mind tricks? Do you politely ask your opponent to lift their foot so you can attack the bottom of it? And why? I keep coming back to that. Why attack the bottom of their foot? If you can attack any part of them, AT WILL NO LESS, why the **** would you choose the bottom of their foot?

I don't get it. Even if you're Batman, why? Unless you're fighting a robot, and there's a self destruct button hidden on the bottom of its foot, I can think of no other reason. This has ruined the rest of my day, because I'll be pondering the implications of your statement.

See, if you're so superior to whoever you're fighting that you can attack any part of their body at will, wouldn't you do some goofy stuff just to troll them?

[BJMills]

Overall, I'd have to say that I'm impressed with the system's fighting philosophy, techniques, and they say they teach and apply what they teach. They truly teach their students to explore what works, and the Pensador is highly efficient, and ergonomic. Personally, in the true spirit of JKD, I'll be picking the eyes out of it, but it certainly a system worthy of our respect.

So... did you happen to see any actual sparring?

Because there are plenty of choreographed videos out there but no actual sparring. Not to mention any KFM guys is any form of MA competition.

You'll have to forgive us for not taking your word in terms of its effectiveness.

[CJaKfOrEsT]

Why attack the bottom of their foot? If you can attack any part of them, AT WILL NO LESS, why the **** would you choose the bottom of their foot?

Wow...you guys really love to jump on every comment, don't you.

I was merely trying to say that Keysi guys are trained to think outside the box, regarding where to hit, and what with. A combination might start off wrenching someone's arm as they try to grab you, followed by a elbow to the shoulder joint, extending to a hammer fist to inside of the thigh of the rear leg (baring in mind that he his standing behind his assailant, at this point), then an elbow to the kidney, and a punch to the chest, from over the shoulder, extending into a one armed sleeper hold, while the other arm monitors for other potential assailants...and all done with the fluidity of a boxer's "jab, cross, hook".

"At will" meaning "whenever you want to"..."top if the head, to the bottom of the foot" meaning all over the body.

[CJaKfOrEsT]

So... did you happen to see any actual sparring?

Because there are plenty of choreographed videos out there but no actual sparring. Not to mention any KFM guys is any form of MA competition.

You'll have to forgive us for not taking your word in terms of its effectiveness.

I can understand that.

Regarding sparring I guess it comes down to the long running debate, regarding whether or not to spar...when it comes to "combatives", as opposed to "sports martial arts". At my club, we do spar, but it is more of the exception, than the rule.