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  1. Resonance10 is online now
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    Welterweight

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    SarfLondon UK
    Posts
    694

    Posted On:
    1/02/2013 11:22am

    supporting member
     Style: Taiji/Hsingyi

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    You're a Londoner, but I'm from the Cottswolds, that's about as evil as I get.

    I wish he'd used Ong Bak instead. Would have read better. With KFM you might jump up, clamping the guy's head w/ your thighs, delivering a double elbow to the dome...all with the fluidity.....
    If your fighting a Keysi man..you don't get to do that headclamping, their doing it already..
  2. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    :)

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Bahstun
    Posts
    7,057

    Posted On:
    1/02/2013 12:18pm

    supporting member
     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sifu foom foom lent them those str33t attackers, for their promos, that can't get their hands above their waist, once they've been pretend hit.

    Mr Smart, feel like breaking down the double hammer fist lol, to the jaw?
  3. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    :)

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    May 2007
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    Bahstun
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    7,057

    Posted On:
    1/02/2013 12:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sifu foom foom lent them those str33t attackers, for their promos, that can't get their hands above their waist, once they've been pretend hit.

    Mr Smart, feel like breaking down the double hammer fist lol, to the jaw?
  4. ermghoti is online now
    ermghoti's Avatar

    Middleweight

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    Apr 2007
    Location
    OW, MY KNEE
    Posts
    2,137

    Posted On:
    1/02/2013 12:58pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ+Sanda

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    Mr Smart, feel like breaking down the double hammer fist lol, to the jaw?
    That's a Shatner-era Captain Kirk technique, and, therefore immune from criticism.

    You gonna tell Shatner that **** doesn't work? He'll throw on a pair of tights, tomoe nage your ass, and then **** the first green female he sees.

    You don't want that.
    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
  5. Anti-Oedipus is offline

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    Sep 2012
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    8

    Posted On:
    1/03/2013 5:17pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Keysi, MMA

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DerAuslander View Post
    Pensador.

    Pensataq is a pensador-augmented headbutt.
    For the record, I know nothing about "wrench the arm" or hammerfists to the thigh and/or sole, or to any place, for that matter; my gym mainly drills punches/elbows/knees/stomps/low kicks at my level.

    I just wanted to mention, first, a pensataq is not a headbutt, but a descending elbow strike, using upper arm motion and body weight (stomping into the attack as elbow comes down and forwards--usually rear elbow, lead is more commonly used for "slicking hair back" elbow uppers mid-combination) while the pensador guard protects your face with a fairly mobile shield mid-attack. I don't know if it's a good technique, don't know anything about grappling, but it's not quite as silly as it sounds.

    I suspect the pensador/hair-combing silliness is reflex training/muscle memory. Once more, I'm not even amateur w/r/t reflexes or fighting (four months down! yellow, or white, or something), but when the reflex amounts to "protect your face, be ready to block high or low, the first strikes and takedowns you learn are going to start from this position" I guess there could be some value to the thing, and "you may kind of look a little like you have just discovered your hair is full of bees, especially when you're shadowboxing" is a price I'm willing to pay.

    KFM beginners are constantly reminded to touch hands to head between strikes, like beginner boxers urged to keep their hands up. I wear contact lenses, so this is good practice for me; I can't really afford to take hits to the eye, because the bastards pop right out. The guard is higher and tighter than in boxing, and the stance is lower. We're usually drilling some variation of "block, block, strike, step-drag in low and squared up, protect face and torso, strike/defend like THIS with fists/knees/elbows," so I like that one of the core principles of the style (silly though it may look) is remembering to always bring your hands/forearms/elbows back to where they make a shield.
  6. Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs is offline
    Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs's Avatar

    fist first Philosopher

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    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sanctuary of Pallas Athena (Belgium)
    Posts
    2,645

    Posted On:
    1/06/2013 4:21pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Savate (LBF/SD/LC) - BJJ

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you compare the elbow work from this:



    to this:



    I hope you can see why I personally think that KFM is a bit too "gimmickly" with the use of elbows.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiujitsu77
    You know you are crazy about BJJ/Martial arts when...
    Quote Originally Posted by Humanzee
    ...your books on Kama Sutra and BJJ are interchangeable.
    Quote Originally Posted by jk55299 on Keysi Fighting Method
    It looks like this is a great fighting method if someone replaces your shampoo with superglue.
    The real deadly:
  7. goodlun is online now
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    Senior Member

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    Jun 2008
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    Ramona
    Posts
    5,016

    Posted On:
    1/06/2013 5:36pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The pensador looks like a really bad idea to me because of range issues and grappling. I watch that video and it just looks like the guy is asking to be suplexed or at the very least have his back taken.
  8. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Sep 2005
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    Baltimore, MD
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    18,451

    Posted On:
    1/09/2013 3:10pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs View Post
    If you compare the elbow work from this:



    to this:



    I hope you can see why I personally think that KFM is a bit too "gimmickly" with the use of elbows.
    NUDDA is awesome.
  9. Anti-Oedipus is offline

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    Sep 2012
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    8

    Posted On:
    1/29/2013 3:02pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Keysi, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs View Post
    If you compare the elbow work from this:



    to this:



    I hope you can see why I personally think that KFM is a bit too "gimmickly" with the use of elbows.
    Sorry to resurrect a thread, I've been out of the country for a while.

    I see your point, and I absolutely agree, but I'd counter with this: the first video, from what I understand, is an example of the KFM "distance learning" package, which I assume is utter crap. Also, I've never done any of those moves in class, at least not that way--sliding in with the elbow like that, for example, resembles nothing I've seen from my instructors. On the other hand, the elbow strikes from the FMA video are pretty much what I drill in class, except the pensataq.

    The guy putting on that video's KFM demonstration is Justo Dieguez, who runs KFM--Andy Norman, who (from what I'm told) has better credentials as a fighter, along with the guy who runs my gym and several other folks, recently split off from KFM to form something called Defence Lab. It seems one of the principal reasons for this split was KFM's awful, awful marketing tactics, but I'm also told Defence Lab's curriculum will be slightly different.

    Honestly, that second video looks much more like what I do in class than the first. The parrying and hand trapping (and the knife work) looks like what I see advanced students in my class doing. The high, crazy monkey style blocks with elbows out and hands on head look exactly like our pensador drills. The main difference I can see is that the FMA guy uses mid-height blocks more than high guard, particularly cross-arm (which we also drill at my gym, but less frequently than "peek-a-boo" style pensador), and that he stands much taller--when I stand like that in class the instructor always comes over to remind me that I'm doing KFM (or "Defence Lab," now), not boxing, so I need to get lower (hell of a quad workout) and keep my hands higher.

    What does this mean? Maybe, like a few people have said, KFM/Defence Lab is just watered down JKD/FMA/whatever. But regardless of that, if that second video is an example of good martial arts training, I think I'm satisfied with what I'm learning at my gym, and when I move (to Mexico City, maybe?) I'm pretty sure the skills, reflexes, and conditioning I'll have acquired will serve me well when I sign up for another martial art.
  10. Anti-Oedipus is offline

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    Sep 2012
    Posts
    8

    Posted On:
    1/29/2013 3:03pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Keysi, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs View Post
    If you compare the elbow work from this:



    to this:



    I hope you can see why I personally think that KFM is a bit too "gimmickly" with the use of elbows.
    Sorry to resurrect a thread, I've been out of the country for a while.

    I see your point, and I absolutely agree, but I'd counter with this: the first video, from what I understand, is an example of the KFM "distance learning" package, which I assume is utter crap. Also, I've never done any of those moves in class, at least not that way--sliding in with the elbow like that, for example, resembles nothing I've seen from my instructors. On the other hand, the elbow strikes from the FMA video are pretty much what I drill in class, except the pensataq.

    The guy putting on that video's KFM demonstration is Justo Dieguez, who runs KFM--Andy Norman, who (from what I'm told) has better credentials as a fighter, along with the guy who runs my gym and several other folks, recently split off from KFM to form something called Defence Lab. It seems one of the principal reasons for this split was KFM's awful, awful marketing tactics, but I'm also told Defence Lab's curriculum will be slightly different.

    Honestly, that second video looks much more like what I do in class than the first. The parrying and hand trapping (and the knife work) looks like what I see advanced students in my class doing. The high, crazy monkey style blocks with elbows out and hands on head look exactly like our pensador drills. The main difference I can see is that the FMA guy uses mid-height blocks more than high guard, particularly cross-arm (which we also drill at my gym, but less frequently than "peek-a-boo" style pensador), and that he stands much taller--when I stand like that in class the instructor always comes over to remind me that I'm doing KFM (or "Defence Lab," now), not boxing, so I need to get lower (hell of a quad workout) and keep my hands higher.

    What does this mean? Maybe, like a few people have said, KFM/Defence Lab is just watered down JKD/FMA/whatever. But regardless of that, if that second video is an example of good martial arts training, I think I'm satisfied with what I'm learning at my gym, and when I move (to Mexico City, maybe?) I'm pretty sure the skills, reflexes, and conditioning I'll have acquired will serve me well when I sign up for another martial art.
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