Page 2 of 2 First 12
  1. #11
    alex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    8,202
    Style
    Muay Thai
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RurikGreenwulf View Post
    So on what level would you put them?
    compared to what? a kickboxer? they looked like what a lot of amateur first time kickboxers look like when they fight. of course those are usually dudes with a year or so experience- one of those dudes in the vid had a black belt at least.

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    ROU
    Posts
    1,239
    Style
    Humbleness
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    compared to what? a kickboxer? they looked like what a lot of amateur first time kickboxers look like when they fight. of course those are usually dudes with a year or so experience- one of those dudes in the vid had a black belt at least.
    Yes kickboxers you know as you are a fighter, just of curiosity whats your opinion on Kyokushin?

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    ROU
    Posts
    1,239
    Style
    Humbleness
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dflanmod View Post
    I didn't her a single "kiaaaaaaaaaaa" in the whole video.
    We sure this is really TKD????
    They have a Muay Thai fighter from my country who has a record in South America and some training in Thailand as a MMA teacher and training with them

  4. #14
    Odacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    3,632
    Style
    Bits and pieces
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RurikGreenwulf View Post
    So I was in the internetz checking about a fighter from y country and found this videos of TKD sparring under MMA rules, with lowkicks and headpunches






    As you can see In my opinion thas quite good...
    funny my cousin has a challenge fight vs a TKD champion but chances are slim he trains like that
    This is the biggest problem for tma schools that try to transition into more alive forms of sparring/competing, instead of gradual increments towards full contact, you have two guys swinging for the fences, looking ridiculous and putting off the majority of people who aren't sure.

  5. #15
    Woah. Alex Van Halen got huge. Join us... or die
    Gabetuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    3,295
    Style
    Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There's no sense of calmness, which makes me wonder about the rulesets under which they spar, and the training they are receiving. Usually when people spar like this it means there's a top-down issue in how composure is communicated.

    Compare this to a Koyukushin fight

    Or Muay Thai sparring

    Or Boxing sparring

    and the difference is there's a lot less flailing and a lot more sense of purpose from the above, rather than those TKD fighters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcastro
    He screams like a little girl as the pain ripples through his arm, shoots up into his brain, and now your dick is hard.



  6. #16
    Permalost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    13,983
    Style
    street paddleboarding
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Odacon View Post
    This is the biggest problem for tma schools that try to transition into more alive forms of sparring/competing, instead of gradual increments towards full contact, you have two guys swinging for the fences, looking ridiculous and putting off the majority of people who aren't sure.
    Yeah, this was also common enough in the sanshou/sanda scene I've seen.

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    ROU
    Posts
    1,239
    Style
    Humbleness
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Damn I'm really learning a lot here in Bullshido, thank you all for your input especially Gabetuno


    Quote Originally Posted by Gabetuno View Post
    Usually when people spar like this it means there's a top-down issue in how composure is communicated.
    Could you elaborate on this?

  8. #18
    Woah. Alex Van Halen got huge. Join us... or die
    Gabetuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    3,295
    Style
    Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What didn't you understand about it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcastro
    He screams like a little girl as the pain ripples through his arm, shoots up into his brain, and now your dick is hard.



  9. #19
    Permalost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    13,983
    Style
    street paddleboarding
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RurikGreenwulf View Post
    Could you elaborate on this?
    I'm not Gabe but I appreciate what he's saying, and its something like this: guys at dojo X hear that aliveness and sparring are important for arts that work in the real world. They've been told for years that their art works in the real world, therefore, it stands to reason that they should be able to spar using what they know. However, their training methodology likely becomes mostly the old compliant drills they've always done, and hard sparring for a small fraction of it. Coming from an "ancient combat proven art" they've already spent some time talking about how there's no rules in a real fight, so they figure minimum rules is the best way to go. That way, they can say how legit they are even though they likely use excessive safety gear, or, alternatively, no gear and a very, very low level of intensity and intent during sparring.

    Because most of their training in the past is not sparring but is instead likely to be katas and choreographed techniques, they probably know how to throw their weight around and kiai and punch hard, but not how to receive such an attack, so they hit each other too hard, usually without tucking the chin or hunching the shoulders or raising the hands for better defense because that would be bad krotty. This leads to the kind of striking where even though they're swinging for the fences, they're very jumpy and nervous, and will often punch while trying to lean away at the same time so they aren't punched too.

    One of the reasons this kind of thing can happen, is that if you spend all your time doing kata etc and only spar a little bit, you want to get the most out of sparring, so you take it seriously and try hard. However, between kata and occasional hard sparring, the thing that often gets kicked to the curb is light sparring. Its a shame, because that's where you really develop a lot of the things you should develop.

  10. #20
    Woah. Alex Van Halen got huge. Join us... or die
    Gabetuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    3,295
    Style
    Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    I'm not Gabe but I appreciate what he's saying, and its something like this: guys at dojo X hear that aliveness and sparring are important for arts that work in the real world. They've been told for years that their art works in the real world, therefore, it stands to reason that they should be able to spar using what they know. However, their training methodology likely becomes mostly the old compliant drills they've always done, and hard sparring for a small fraction of it. Coming from an "ancient combat proven art" they've already spent some time talking about how there's no rules in a real fight, so they figure minimum rules is the best way to go. That way, they can say how legit they are even though they likely use excessive safety gear, or, alternatively, no gear and a very, very low level of intensity and intent during sparring.

    Because most of their training in the past is not sparring but is instead likely to be katas and choreographed techniques, they probably know how to throw their weight around and kiai and punch hard, but not how to receive such an attack, so they hit each other too hard, usually without tucking the chin or hunching the shoulders or raising the hands for better defense because that would be bad krotty. This leads to the kind of striking where even though they're swinging for the fences, they're very jumpy and nervous, and will often punch while trying to lean away at the same time so they aren't punched too.

    One of the reasons this kind of thing can happen, is that if you spend all your time doing kata etc and only spar a little bit, you want to get the most out of sparring, so you take it seriously and try hard. However, between kata and occasional hard sparring, the thing that often gets kicked to the curb is light sparring. Its a shame, because that's where you really develop a lot of the things you should develop.
    I wasn't really trying to say that. I mean that may be true but I just don't know.

    My point was more that instructors usually set an example, either with themselves or their other high-level students. If I walked into a gym - knowing absolutely 0 about boxing but knowing what I know about BJJ - and everyone was swinging like these dudes and nobody was saying "slow down", "conserve", or "take your time, set things up", I'd be suspicious.

    Most every martial art I know uses strategies and economy of some manner. In boxing, if you throw a one-two-three, the three is typically thrown harder than the others. One-two is the set up, three is the damage. Chess players do this too when they play, using combinations of moves to drive you toward a goal. There are little goals within big goals, and even smaller goals within the little goals.

    When people spar in the OP video, the one thing that's very evident to me is that none of that is going on. And I blame whomever is teaching them for not communicating it properly [assuming that this isn't like just a smoker for noobs].
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcastro
    He screams like a little girl as the pain ripples through his arm, shoots up into his brain, and now your dick is hard.



Page 2 of 2 First 12

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO