Good supplements?

**Clinchfighter** · Posted On: 3/15/2012 9:39pm

The other day, a friend and I were at GNC and decided we'd ask the cashier about supplements such as creatine. The cashier started pushing product, but not explaining anything to us.

So to Bullshido: Does creatine combined with workouts increase muscular size, strength or does it not do anything at all?

While I'm here, what if any, are good products to take in addition to lifting 2 times a day to increase muscle size? My coach says I need to look scarier before next wrestling season.

**Prone** · Posted On: 3/16/2012 4:04am

Creatine just increases the amount of water which is put into the muscle. So yeah: you will see an increase of muscle size. A lot of people I know have problems with creatine due to digestion problems. Your water intake will have to increase as well.

The normal supplements will help though: Protein etc. All of which are the normal things to take when lifting...

**Clinchfighter** · Posted On: 3/16/2012 4:45am

Originally Posted by Prone

Creatine just increases the amount of water which is put into the muscle. So yeah: you will see an increase of muscle size. A lot of people I know have problems with creatine due to digestion problems. Your water intake will have to increase as well.

The normal supplements will help though: Protein etc. All of which are the normal things to take when lifting...

I take in plenty of protein. I have enough strength( I can lift and carry 230 lb guys no problem), its size I'm worried about. Basically, my wrestling coach calls me a twig, and tells me to gain 20 lbs over the summer (non-fat). So if creatine will help I'll give it a try. My only problem is that if my water intake increases, it may become a problem when trying to make weight.

PS Is it normal to read your posts in Jason Statham's voice?

**Prone** · Posted On: 3/16/2012 5:12am

Yes, it is ;)

On the subject of creatine: There is a longer discussion about that somewhere in this sub-forum (posted by Phrost). You will find a lot of good info in there.

**Soldiermedic** · Posted On: 3/16/2012 6:53am

Dammit noob read the goddamn stickies!

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=61083

Hope this helps

**Azatdawn** · Posted On: 3/20/2012 4:04pm

Originally Posted by Clinchfighter

I take in plenty of protein. I have enough strength( I can lift and carry 230 lb guys no problem), its size I'm worried about. Basically, my wrestling coach calls me a twig, and tells me to gain 20 lbs over the summer (non-fat). So if creatine will help I'll give it a try. My only problem is that if my water intake increases, it may become a problem when trying to make weight.

PS Is it normal to read your posts in Jason Statham's voice?

I'm just curious, but: if you're quite strong for your weight class, wouldn't that be a good thing? Do you get thrown around too easily or is there something else that the idiot me doesn't get here?

***TaeBo_Master*** · Posted On: 3/20/2012 4:16pm

Creatine is one of the few work-enhacing supplements that has been pretty much shown to work, and has been around long enough to have been able to study its safety record (excluding hormone-based supplements like steroids and androstenedione). There are issues with water intake and such, which I'll touch on soon. In the next hour or two, I'll post in more depth about creatine.

**Clinchfighter** · Posted On: 3/20/2012 7:15pm

Originally Posted by Azatdawn

I'm just curious, but: if you're quite strong for your weight class, wouldn't that be a good thing? Do you get thrown around too easily or is there something else that the idiot me doesn't get here?

I'm not going up a class, just looking to put some meat on. According to my wrestling coach "You(me) need to look scary." Meaning on my 6'6'' form a couple extra pounds of muscle would do some good in the prematch match (mental game).

**Clinchfighter** · Posted On: 3/20/2012 7:16pm

Originally Posted by TaeBo_Master

Creatine is one of the few work-enhacing supplements that has been pretty much shown to work, and has been around long enough to have been able to study its safety record (excluding hormone-based supplements like steroids and androstenedione). There are issues with water intake and such, which I'll touch on soon. In the next hour or two, I'll post in more depth about creatine.

As much info as you could give me would be helpful. Thank you much.

***TaeBo_Master*** · Posted On: 3/20/2012 10:08pm

Ok, I'll try to do this as concisely as possible, even though I'm nearly certain I've outlined this before. First, the rationale behind creatine supplementation:

It all has to do with Phosphate groups. Every cell in your body –particularly muscle cells, since they generally utilize the most energy if we don't count brain cells– derives its energy from ATP, which stands for Adenosine Triphosphate. That is an Adenosine (henceforth referred to as A) molecule with 3 Phosphate (P) groups attached to it. When the cell requires energy, it breaks one of the bonds between the A and one of the P groups. Breaking that bond releases energy which is used by the cell, leaving behind ADP (Adenosine Diphosphate).
Now, there is only enough ATP in any given cell to last 1 or 2 seconds. The only way to get more cellular energy is to reattach a P to the A so that it can be broken again and so on.
Creatine is in fact Creatine Phosphate (CP), and it is the first, fastest, and most efficient way to replace the P groups. As you can probably guess, it does so by breaking one of the P groups from the CP and attaching to the ADP to remake ATP. However, even this is limited by quantity. You only have enough CP in your cells to last you approximately 30-120 seconds, depending on the level of exertion. After the CP stage, you go into Glycolysis and aerobic means of replacing the P groups, but we don't need to touch on that now.
So in short, Creatine as a supplement works by increasing the amount of CP that is present to be used by your cells.

Now, I'll touch on the benefits and drawbacks of Creatine, and how to get the most out of it:

If you take Creatine by itself and don't change anything else, it will not do very much to help you. The whole point of taking Creatine is to increase the potential amount of energy your muscles can exert. In short, it allows you to workout HARDER FOR LONGER. This is very crucial. If you do not then actually do your workouts harder and longer, you won't see a benefit from Creatine. But if you do, well, the enhanced results should be pretty obvious.
A couple of caveats. First, Prone is correct in that Creatine does draw a lot of extra water into your muscles. This is an advantage and a disadvantage. It does increase muscle size, but also increases muscle requirements. You'll need to increase your water intake by as much as double to meet these demands. If you don't, you'll be denying your muscles a vital nutrient and that will mean you won't get the benefits either. Also, you're a wrestler. Added water means a lot of extra weight. When you're not gearing up for competition, that probably doesn't matter too much. But when you go to cut weight, it matters a lot. Now, it might prove to be an advantage in that you'll have a whole lot of water available to cut. But it's also a disadvantage because your muscles will need that water because of the creatine and you'll be that much easier to dehydrate. You MUST stop taking Creatine well before you start cutting weight. Not just immediately beforehand, but probably a couple weeks at minimum. You'll lose a little bit of the extra gains you made, but not all of them. If you'd been working out the higher intensity, your muscles will still retain a fair amount of their previous strength.

Hope this helps.

Now, from now on, read other threads before asking what is a pretty common question.