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  1. C0nan is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2012 2:21pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Grappling, some striking

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Very unbalanced blue belt

    Hi. I am an ''old'' blue belt (gonna test for purple this year) with a wrestling/subgrappling background.
    I'm very upset with my own game, let me explain you. I have a good purple belt level top control game with an added advantage of my 230 lbs weight, being relatively muscular and in shape. But my guard game is AWFUL ( my escapes from lower positions are just OK, not great)

    1)When I am on top, I am hard to sweep, and if I pass the guard and get side control ( except brown or black belts ) I can keep the position as long as I want, with relatively high submission success .

    2) Because I had a wrestling background, I started my training with lot of flaws. The guard was never natural for me, and I generally avoided it (I mean, using it if have to, but never pulling guard) . I was forced by my instructor to upgrade my guard for my blue belt testing, and I did. But, my guard is now at a very low blue belt level, as if I got my blue belt yesterday ( or worse).

    3)I dont think I am ready to be a decent purple belt , until I get my guard to Purple belt level....but is very difficult to improve. The class I attend is filled with high colored belts, and I get mauled when I pull guard, so I can not practice it. Other blue belts of my size can pass my guard with ease, even if I can sub them using my '' A '' game. There are other classes plenty of lower blues and white belts, but I am unable to go because of my work.

    Should I say my instructor I am not ready for purple ?

    thanks
  2. slamdunc is online now
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    Extraordinarily Ordinary

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2012 2:42pm

    supporting member
     Style: TKD, CMA & American Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by C0nan View Post
    Should I say my instructor I am not ready for purple?
    Surely, if you are not ready, he will know this. Surely, he will not test you until you are ready. Surely, he will not promote you if you are not ready and don't meet the requirements.
    Hopefully, he can assess your shortcomings, and develop them.
  3. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2012 3:32pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was a wrestler as a high school and, to a minor degree, at college. When I started BJJ at 32, I realized after a year that if I didn't start pulling guard every time I rolled, I'd always suck at it. So that's what I did. The first three months sucked, but I eventually got better.

    You have done yourself no favors neglecting the guard in BJJ. Rather than avoid it, you should try embracing it. Make yourself a student of the guard position. It will initially be less than gratifying, to put it lightly.
    Shut the hell up and train.
  4. sweats is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2012 3:36pm


     Style: Shotokan & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by C0nan View Post
    I get mauled when I pull guard, so I can not practice it.
    I fail to see why that means you can't practice it. Not doing as well when you're working on your weaknesses is to be expected. By definition, your "B" game is never going to be as good as your "A" game.

    Take myself as an example, I have basically exactly the opposite issues as yourself. I don't come from a wrestling background and only weigh about 160 lbs which means I'm not very strong at 6'. I've ended up on the bottom a lot over the years and developed a pretty tough guard if I dare say so myself as a result. However, one of things I've resolved myself to do is get better at top game and takedowns specifically.

    I resolved to stop pulling guard and guess what happened? I got taken down, a lot. I became very well acquainted with seeing my school's ceiling get closer and then get further away all with amazing speed. However, after a few months I got harder to take down. Recently, I've even managed to take down a couple people which is a big break through for me. Am I awesome? Hell no. Do I still get my **** wrecked by the people that wrestled in high school? All the time. Am I better on my feet than I was 6 months ago? Definitely.

    If you want to work on something you're bad at, you have to accept that it's going to be hard and not enjoyable. I think you have to adjust your mind set. From the sound of it, you seem concerned about "winning" at training, which is a big impediment to progress. Step back a little and think about the big picture.

    So a blue belt your size passed your guard, there's your opportunity to practice your bottom escapes that you're only "OK" at. It's also a chance for you to assess what you did that enabled them to pass.

    You should also do some targeted drilling. See if you can find someone at your school that is having a hard time passing the guard. Have them start in your guard. You try to sweep or submit and they try to pass. If they pass or you sweep/submit them, restart in the guard and repeat. They get to practice passing on someone without a killer guard and you get to practice guard on someone who isn't the greatest passer. Ideally you both improve and give each other greater challenge over time. Of course, rotate other people in so you get practice on different body types and skill levels.
  5. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2012 4:22pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by C0nan View Post
    Hi. I am an ''old'' blue belt (gonna test for purple this year) with a wrestling/subgrappling background.
    I'm very upset with my own game, let me explain you. I have a good purple belt level top control game with an added advantage of my 230 lbs weight, being relatively muscular and in shape. But my guard game is AWFUL ( my escapes from lower positions are just OK, not great)

    1)When I am on top, I am hard to sweep, and if I pass the guard and get side control ( except brown or black belts ) I can keep the position as long as I want, with relatively high submission success .

    2) Because I had a wrestling background, I started my training with lot of flaws. The guard was never natural for me, and I generally avoided it (I mean, using it if have to, but never pulling guard) . I was forced by my instructor to upgrade my guard for my blue belt testing, and I did. But, my guard is now at a very low blue belt level, as if I got my blue belt yesterday ( or worse).

    3)I dont think I am ready to be a decent purple belt , until I get my guard to Purple belt level....but is very difficult to improve. The class I attend is filled with high colored belts, and I get mauled when I pull guard, so I can not practice it. Other blue belts of my size can pass my guard with ease, even if I can sub them using my '' A '' game. There are other classes plenty of lower blues and white belts, but I am unable to go because of my work.

    Should I say my instructor I am not ready for purple ?

    thanks
    1 it'd be disrespectful, let your instructor make that determination.

    2. You need to look at this with a purple belt's eyes. If you are truly good at wrestling and have a top game then you have to learn to invert those theories to your bottom game. The bottom game is nothing but an inverted wrestling game with better balance. I teach my guys how to do single, double and ankle picks while on their back and using other mechanisms.

    3. Learn one game and move from there. IMO wrestlers should use the butterfly game.

    How old is old?
  6. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2012 4:24pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BTW I moved this to the basic section even though this was jnp's call. I think this would benefit beginners too.
  7. C0nan is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2012 7:25pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Grappling, some striking

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thank y'all for the quick replies.

    I fail to see why that means you can't practice it. Not doing as well when you're working on your weaknesses is to be expected. By definition, your "B" game is never going to be as good as your "A" game.
    I mean, against blue belts and up, I last a short time in my guard before I got my guard passed. I don't have any time to practice any guard.But yes, I could recover guard , and keep trying, even for a couple of seconds , it stils guard work

    2. You need to look at this with a purple belt's eyes. If you are truly good at wrestling and have a top game then you have to learn to invert those theories to your bottom game. The bottom game is nothing but an inverted wrestling game with better balance. I teach my guys how to do single, double and ankle picks while on their back and using other mechanisms.
    YOu are right about that omega. But applying that theory in practice is hard for me. I am ubber confortable when I am on top, but I feel like a turtle in my guard. It is my fault, I skipped hard guard work , and now I am paying for that.


    From the sound of it, you seem concerned about "winning" at training, which is a big impediment to progress. Step back a little and think about the big picture.
    You are partially correct. I used to be concerned about '' winning'', but today ,I don't care to be submited, even by a lower belt. I turned 26 yo , so I know I 'm not gonna be a world champ. Much more laid back now. In the last few ''treinos'' I pulled guard, and got a little better. But some days its very dissapointing.I am swallowing my ego. I must to fight my own bjj demons.Who cares who I tap in training ? Just me....and I am nobody in the bjj world



    How old is old?
    I got my Blue about 3 years ago. I spent almost 2 years to move from white to blue ( I tested at 1.5 years, but I had to be retested six months later because my extremely crappy guard). So, I have 5 years of bjj ( but years of previus wrestling and 1.5 yr of luta livre).
    It is like I am a Bjj schizophrenic, I am halved in two persons. The side control maniac psycho and the granny guard poor bastard dude. It remembers me to old beat 'em up video games, with those weird unbalanced characters, like Haggar from final fight , who is ubber strong but moves like a snail.....


    At least , It was worst when I started bjj, because I also enjoyed Powerlifting (in my early 20's), so I used my strenght like a Chimp and spazzed everyone -and got gi chocked by a 150 lbs blue belt my first class-


    Why did you say that butterfly is better for wrestlers ?
  8. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2012 9:45pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by C0nan View Post
    Thank y'all for the quick replies.



    I mean, against blue belts and up, I last a short time in my guard before I got my guard passed. I don't have any time to practice any guard.But yes, I could recover guard , and keep trying, even for a couple of seconds , it stils guard work



    YOu are right about that omega. But applying that theory in practice is hard for me. I am ubber confortable when I am on top, but I feel like a turtle in my guard. It is my fault, I skipped hard guard work , and now I am paying for that.




    You are partially correct. I used to be concerned about '' winning'', but today ,I don't care to be submited, even by a lower belt. I turned 26 yo , so I know I 'm not gonna be a world champ. Much more laid back now. In the last few ''treinos'' I pulled guard, and got a little better. But some days its very dissapointing.I am swallowing my ego. I must to fight my own bjj demons.Who cares who I tap in training ? Just me....and I am nobody in the bjj world





    I got my Blue about 3 years ago. I spent almost 2 years to move from white to blue ( I tested at 1.5 years, but I had to be retested six months later because my extremely crappy guard). So, I have 5 years of bjj ( but years of previus wrestling and 1.5 yr of luta livre).
    It is like I am a Bjj schizophrenic, I am halved in two persons. The side control maniac psycho and the granny guard poor bastard dude. It remembers me to old beat 'em up video games, with those weird unbalanced characters, like Haggar from final fight , who is ubber strong but moves like a snail.....


    At least , It was worst when I started bjj, because I also enjoyed Powerlifting (in my early 20's), so I used my strenght like a Chimp and spazzed everyone -and got gi chocked by a 150 lbs blue belt my first class-


    Why did you say that butterfly is better for wrestlers ?
    Butterfly allows spacial allowance to attack base and switch to single and doubles, they are also the base leverage for the x guard. From there you can switch to deep half which uses principals of the base single and ankle pick.
  9. Petter is offline

    12th level logic wielder

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2012 10:04pm


     Style: BJJ, judo, rapier

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by C0nan View Post
    I mean, against blue belts and up, I last a short time in my guard before I got my guard passed. I don't have any time to practice any guard.But yes, I could recover guard , and keep trying, even for a couple of seconds , it stils guard work
    This is exactly the situation I’m in—I’m trying to work on my lamentably poor butterfly guard, and when I set up the butterfly on a competent opponent they have had a tendency to pass so quickly that I didn’t get any real training time in. Three things have helped me, though. One is what you want but can’t have—that is, I have opportunities to go to beginner classes (and open mat time) and try my low-percentage game on opponents that I have more of a chance to work it on. The other two are two realisations:

    • Rolling is about practice, not winning. Not just dropping the attitude that I need to win, but reminding myself that winning isn’t even necessarily the best outcome for me. If I decide I’m playing butterfly, then I’ll give up even superior positions to regain it. I may sweep and just let my opponent scramble back. I’m practicing butterfly guard, after all, not top side.
    • The only way I personally find I can get comfortable with a part of my game that I’m bad at is to work on whatever I need to establish it. Take closed guard: Because I was terrible at open guard, every time someone opened my guard (or I opened my guard to attack, but failed), I’d be screwed. Thus (your problem again) I’d end up with very little time to work the closed guard. Once I started playing more open guard, though, and learned to re-establish guard from turtle, I suddenly had the ability to take the time to work on it. So what if I can only work on my butterfly for ten seconds at a time? If I can get back to it every time I lose it, I can still get lots of time in. Thus, my new philosophy for a generic “improve position X that I’m terrible at” is “improve the positions A, B, C that result from a failure in X in order to make more X-training time”. The key to butterfly thus far has been learning to go to half guard -> half butterfly -> full butterfly whenever anyone passes.

    (I’m not saying you should work butterfly rather than some other guard; that’s just my own relevant example. If Omega says you should, though, it’s probably true.)
    [ petterhaggholm.net | blog | essays ]
    [ self defence: general thoughts | bjj: “don’t go to the ground”? ]
    “The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data.”
  10. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/15/2012 11:48pm

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     Style: BJJ/ MMA/ MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is there a hierarchy of guards, beginner to advanced? As in:

    Beginner-

    Closed
    Open
    Half
    Butterfly
    Spider

    -Advanced

    I am nowhere near blue belt level anything, top or bottom, but I have a decent active closed guard, people can only get out of it when I decide to move to open guard, which I suck wholeheartedly at and can be passed to half guard relatively easy. I've recently been advised to try spider guard, because the striped whites "won't expect it", but I am concerned I am putting the cart before the horse.
    GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
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