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  1. downtime is offline

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    May 2011
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    Posted On:
    6/11/2012 7:49am


     Style: Bjj, Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Strategy's for dealing with wrestlers

    So yesterday rolled with a guy our blackbelt brought in from his other school, and frankly got smashed, He's a white belt in Bjj but here's the disclaimer he was a college level wrestler and has been doing wrestling for 11 years and even is a coach or assintant coach for kids at a school. We're about same size and Im about 12 years older (read this as slower, lol) And I really struggled with him. I knew he was a wrestler and was warned before hand not to play the knee game when engaging and to try to get him into my guard or get into his. This guys shots were nothing short of fearless, I switched to butterfly figuring he'd want to play top as a wrestler, and the second one of my legs would travel a bit forward he'd shoot from his knees and tackel me and gain top position. I had a few moments in the three rolls where I had some success (threatend with a kimura from a weird half butterfly guard with the other leg over the head (but he buried his arm). I had better success in our third roll when I started attcking his feet and almost knee bar'd and toe hold'd him. But really I got smashed for the 30 minutes or so we rolled, he was strong had great pressure and I found recovering guard to be damn near imposible as he held me in place.

    So how do YOU guys deal with really strong wrestlers? What do game do you employ?
  2. Scrapper is offline
    Scrapper's Avatar

    Fear and bullets.

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2012 7:58am

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wrestling is a game of explosiveness and positional dominance. He is going to be an expert on getting you where he wants you to be. Either develop your sprawl and scramble, or focus where he is going to be weak:

    Namely finishing subs and protecting his neck, knees, and ankles.

    Wrestlers tend to almost gift guillotines and kimura-from guard. When he stuffs your single-leg (and he will) try to work for the knee or ankle.

    Get used to being on bottom.
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  3. Kave is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2012 8:27pm


     Style: MMA noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wrestlers will often give up their backs when they go to ground.
  4. jnp is offline
    jnp's Avatar

    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2012 10:52pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In my experience, wrestlers new to submission grappling are most vulnerable to chokes and leg locks. They tend to have little exposure to either. I personally got triangled repeatedly when I started BJJ because it took me a few sessions to figure out that I couldn't pull my head out of a good one. I also had zero experience with collar chokes, and therefore had no clue how to defend them.

    You will not be able to match a wrestler's base until you are more than a few years into the game yourself. Even then, it will take some time focusing on learning the same principles the wrestler learned previously.

    When I say "base" I mean both how heavy a person feels when on top as well as how hard they are to move around in general.
    Shut the hell up and train.
  5. downtime is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/12/2012 12:10am


     Style: Bjj, Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah I could tell, his base was great, and his pressure wasnt just heavy it was consistent, and unrelenting. I did manage a sweep which completely surprised me because his base up to that point had been so strong (This sweep was also the first time in the whole session I had him on his back and was in top position and also what put me in position to attempt a knee bar (he defended and I switched to a toe hold, but over enxtended myself reaching for the foot which put me off balance and he exploded out from under me. Ussually with heavier guys that like to smash I play conservative and let them gas in longer rolls then implement my game. I didnt feel this was an option as he had great cardio and about 12 years on me in youth. I

    I'll watch for gi chokes next time as I "thought" going into it that it would be an advantage for me" but I never had him in my guard or in a position to apply any collar chokes/loop chokes etc that Im familiar enough with to employ with confidence. I did shoot for a triangle but he ducked my leg before I was able to lock it up. I'll be honest he was dumping me onto my back from some of the weirdest positions Ive ever been in, just used a really different game than I've been exposed to.

    But I appreciate the advise JNP, I know you came from a wrestling background before BJJ
  6. Mmafighter23 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/12/2012 12:19am


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kave View Post
    Wrestlers will often give up their backs when they go to ground.
    This. Im a wrestler and it was a bad habit i had for nogi for a little while.
  7. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/13/2012 12:25pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you're going from standing, here are some ideas for defending against doubles and singles in a gi: http://superjudo.tv/morote-gari-defe...st-a-wrestler/
  8. TheMightyMcClaw is offline
    TheMightyMcClaw's Avatar

    MADE OF STEEL!

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    Posted On:
    6/13/2012 6:26pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kung Fu Swordfighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Cross collar chokes from guard. People who aren't used to fighting with the gi hate that ****.
    The fool thinks himself immortal,
    If he hold back from battle;
    But old age will grant him no truce,
    Even if spears spare him.
  9. jjc is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/15/2012 4:07pm


     Style: Boxing and Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm a wrestler who has had a few privates with instructors in Judo and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. When we ''rolled'', I noticed I would score the takedown/throw and attain control on top, but always got caught in a choke or jointlock. Those privates were a blast. I can't wait to have more.
  10. downtime is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/19/2012 9:32am


     Style: Bjj, Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    In my experience, wrestlers new to submission grappling are most vulnerable to chokes and leg locks. They tend to have little exposure to either. I personally got triangled repeatedly when I started BJJ because it took me a few sessions to figure out that I couldn't pull my head out of a good one. I also had zero experience with collar chokes, and therefore had no clue how to defend them.

    You will not be able to match a wrestler's base until you are more than a few years into the game yourself. Even then, it will take some time focusing on learning the same principles the wrestler learned previously.

    When I say "base" I mean both how heavy a person feels when on top as well as how hard they are to move around in general.
    SO would you consider a closed guard game more effective? I've been using scissor guard alot and trying to up my butterfly guard game but just didnt seem effective against all the smash passes and leg pins he was utilizing. I probably should have went to a closed guard game sooner in the roll than just attempting to employ the current things Im working on.
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