American Schools Shaolin Kempo (and the BS I have dealt with)

[goodlun]

I said nothing about universal, there are plenty of people that can not teach not just the arts but math or science also.

Ahem

As a true student of the arts I respect all arts, students and instructors, whether I like the style or not. I wish you would all do the same. If it wasn't for you then sorry to hear that and best of luck finding your dojo:

Ever stop to think that this particular Art and Instructor are not befitting of respect?

[It is Fake]

Goodlun,

I said nothing about universal, there are plenty of people that can not teach not just the arts but math or science also. I do not participate in MMA but I do not bash this style or mixture, nor do I grapple but I respect a persons right to study this.

W. rabbit,

I was merely stating that Daggermouth was in the lessons with a closed mind and preconceived notions and expectations and that is no way to study any art out there.

Ermghoti,

You state that they are teaching dangerous things but until you take lessons and see this for yourself I implore you to not judge by one persons view.

The original poster stated that they, a novice in this art, was attempting to tell the master he was wrong in the middle of a class thus was shut down. As was stated before, there is a propper time and place. You are not correct in doing this and even more wrong for then getting upset and screaming ow horrible these people are online because you got shut down.

All I am saying is that if you go in arrogant then you will get upset when the instructor doesn't stroke our ego. You pay instructors to show you what they were taught.

No, you are close minded. There is NO reason to grab a blade as a TECHNIQUE. NONE.

Now, I have watched, read, and heard many TRUE stories of people grabbing the edge to save their life. It is not a TECHNIQUE it is a last resort to stop from being murdered.

Now, IMO, he could have chosen a better time to speak up, but common sense means he is right. The fact you are trying to say "check this out first before judging" means you have drank the Kool-Aide.

[mike321]

Mike321,

You seem to be taking everything I write out of context. I never said it was so complicated that you can't figure it out. What I was saying is that if you go to a cooking class get half the ingredients then get mad when your souffle doesn't turn out right you have missed the point.

If you don't like the art or the instructor then don't go there, but don't throw about a statement that is not founded on fact but heresy.

Martial arts isn't cooking. In high school our wrestling coach said after a certain takedown take the leg not the head. Someone said it was wrong. Coach said ok you try it once your way and I will try it my way. The coaches way worked and I saw it with my own eyes. Don't give me this crap about super respect and every art is respectable. I did not take you out of context. You said heresy, I assume you meant hearsay. It's not hearsay if he is talking about something he witnessed. Heresy is probably closer to your true meaning because facts don't matter and unbelievers are to be punished.

[Mysfit]

Thank you for catching my spelling error. Now, again since I was taken out of context I will repay what I have been saying. One person believed they were told to grab the blade. If I said to you grab that knife you are going to take it as you see fit. All I was pointing out was that one person claims they were told to grab the blade when they could have been told to grab the knife, or "it" referring to a hand, wrist or knife handle.

And " drinking the koolaid" is hardly a correct turn of phrase for an intelligent discussion about martial arts. Just because I choose to point out different sides of the same issue is no need for you to get hateful.

I have loved every minute of my martial arts training and have dabbled in different styles. I have learned a lot from different instructors over the years and have even disagreed with some things. As much as martial arts is not cooking it is not high school wrestling either.

[mike321]

No, high school wrestling is not what you refer to as Martial Arts. It is consistently successful in real fights, taught in an alive manner, tested in competition, has a history greater than 2000 years that can be verified by real historians, is a native style to the United States, and has a lineage going back more than 100 years. It is NOTHING like what you are describing.

So please tell us about this art, how do they train, what techniques do they teach, do they compete, is there any evidence anyone there can fight? Remember claims require evidence.

[goodlun]

I will repay what I have been saying.

All you have been saying is I have been doing martial arts along time so bow down to my appeal to authority other than you know actually making a point.

One person believed they were told to grab the blade. If I said to you grab that knife you are going to take it as you see fit. All I was pointing out was that one person claims they were told to grab the blade when they could have been told to grab the knife, or "it" referring to a hand, wrist or knife handle.

See the story as told it would be hard for it to be ambiguous as you see he asked if he should grab the hand if that is what the instructor meant he would have said so at that point.

I told him that I was concerned about the fact that we actually are being instructed to grab a knife and in the street that'd be a good way to get your fingers chopped off with all the adrenaline coursing through your body. I was saying that the same technique would work if we just trapped the hand instead. He was angry that I wouldn't want to work the technique from start to finish the way he showed me. He said that my method wouldn't work because the attacker would be able to manipulate the knife.

" drinking the koolaid" is hardly a correct turn of phrase for an intelligent discussion about martial arts.

Its very hard to have an intelligent conversation when you don't say anything intelligent instead you throw out logical fallacies like your appeals to authority and your No true Scotsman. Also you have a bad habit of blaming the reader for taking you out of context when you have done a piss poor job of putting any sort of thing into context.

I have loved every minute of my martial arts training and have dabbled in different styles. I have learned a lot from different instructors over the years and have even disagreed with some things.

I enjoy how its ok for YOU to disagree but not someone else to disagree.

As much as martial arts is not cooking it is not high school wrestling either.

Seriously? I mean seriously? Are you really going to say wrestling isn't a martial art. What the hell is a "martial art" then? let me guess it requires dancing around in your pajamas.

The point, is he got shitty instruction and should have called the teacher out on it especially when the teacher asked if their was any questions.

To put things into "context" if I where say taking a history class and the teacher said
"The Battle of Gettysburg happened in 1812, because the Vietnamese's wanted their independence from the French" I would certainly say something.

If I where in a math class and the freaking teacher was doing a math problem and ignored very basic rules like order of operations or don't divide by 0 I would say something.

If I am paying someone to teach me something by god the **** they teach me better be right. I have no time for delicate egos or other bullshit.

[ermghoti]

Ermghoti,

You state that they are teaching dangerous things but until you take lessons and see this for yourself I implore you to not judge by one persons view.

No. Simply incorrect. Unless the OP is lying about that technique, there is no mitigation possible. There is no excuse, ever, to grab a knife by the blade in a disarm. It would be like telling someone to hold their hands behind their back in stand-up. It would be like telling someone to close their eyes while driving.

The original poster stated that they, a novice in this art, was attempting to tell the master he was wrong in the middle of a class thus was shut down. As was stated before, there is a propper time and place. You are not correct in doing this and even more wrong for then getting upset and screaming ow horrible these people are online because you got shut down.

The instructor asked for questions, and the OP provided one, based on his previous (valid) training. The instructor took offense at being questioned, refused to demonstrate the technique, and then hit the student. Even if the OP were in the wrong, that is out of line. If I'm at a BJJ class, and I'm being shown a technique I believe to be dangerous, illegal in competition or unwise on the street, I'm free to ask about it. It happens all the time. "What if I..." questions are answered either with a demonstration, a counter, or an admission of fallibility of technique. That's what quality instruction looks like.

All I am saying is that if you go in arrogant then you will get upset when the instructor doesn't stroke our ego. You pay instructors to show you what they were taught.

To be fair, the OP is probably butthurt, and if his narrative is to be believed, he went into the school with a negative attitude. That does not excuse in anyway that this school is used to extract money from students at the least possible investment of effort rather than teach martial arts. It does not excuse having untrained instructors. It does not excuse striking students outside of training. It does not excuse teaching lethally flawed self-defense against weapons to novices.

[WhiteShark]

"grab a punch out of the air." Run it's over let go nobody listens to disco.

[It is Fake]

Thank you for catching my spelling error. Now, again since I was taken out of context I will repay what I have been saying. One person believed they were told to grab the blade. If I said to you grab that knife you are going to take it as you see fit. All I was pointing out was that one person claims they were told to grab the blade when they could have been told to grab the knife, or "it" referring to a hand, wrist or knife handle.

Let me get this right, you are correcting what he wrote while not being there, but you just argued you need to see something to judge it. You do see the irony and contradiction in your statements right?

And " drinking the koolaid" is hardly a correct turn of phrase for an intelligent discussion about martial arts. Just because I choose to point out different sides of the same issue is no need for you to get hateful.

Telling someone what to write and what to say is not about an intelligent discussion. You started this off by being a bossy little cheerleader who drank the kool-aide.

I have loved every minute of my martial arts training and have dabbled in different styles. I have learned a lot from different instructors over the years and have even disagreed with some things. As much as martial arts is not cooking it is not high school wrestling either.

Wrestling is a martial art cooking is not. Dabbling? That tells us more than you think...... beginner. You do know you just contradicted yourself again.

[W. Rabbit]

W. rabbit,

I was merely stating that Daggermouth was in the lessons with a closed mind and preconceived notions and expectations and that is no way to study any art out there.

IIF is right you're very contradictory....first it was temporal (8 classes isn't enough) now it's close mindedness and preconceptions?

Sure sounds like you're just making up excuses.

An art can easily sell itself the first time you take part. If it takes months and months to convince you, maybe it's really brainwashing.