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  1. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/12/2012 8:43am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Devil does have a point in that it is a win - win situation for the disabled competitor and lose - lose for the able bodied competitor.

    If the disabled loses then everyone still, rightly, praises him for competing. If he wins then everyone, rightly, lauds him for winning.

    If the able bodied guy loses then no one will cut him any slack and probably wind him up for it. If he wins no one is going to give him any praise for his win, because well he should be able to beat a disabled guy...

    However, much you may dislike those facts, they are the facts. And if you follow the logic, then yes in that case it could be argued that it is 'less impressive' for the disabled guy to compete, because he gets a lot of praise regardless of the outcome.
  2. tmorterlaing is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2012 8:53am


     Style: Jujitsu and BJJ

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    Now THAT was funny. (re soccer player).
  3. tmorterlaing is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2012 8:58am


     Style: Jujitsu and BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Devil does have a point in that it is a win - win situation for the disabled competitor and lose - lose for the able bodied competitor.

    If the disabled loses then everyone still, rightly, praises him for competing. If he wins then everyone, rightly, lauds him for winning.

    If the able bodied guy loses then no one will cut him any slack and probably wind him up for it. If he wins no one is going to give him any praise for his win, because well he should be able to beat a disabled guy...

    However, much you may dislike those facts, they are the facts. And if you follow the logic, then yes in that case it could be argued that it is 'less impressive' for the disabled guy to compete, because he gets a lot of praise regardless of the outcome.

    I know this doesn't relate directly to your point (which I agree with), but there is some debate to be had about levels of disability with regards to what you were saying about "should be able to beat a disabled guy" - I mean, I have a fucked up left knee for example, to the extent some may describe me as 'disabled', but Ive won quite a few full contacts...
  4. Lampa is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/12/2012 11:05am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    Yes. Next question, please.

    Well, my next question would be the same regardless of your response. I was just curious as to where you were coming from.

    Especially in amateur competitions; where the environment is viewed more as a learning experience, no money is on the line, and a loss doesn't really follow anyone around, what exactly is the problem with taking a fight you're expected to lose?

    Just about anyone who doesn't look like much that stepped in as an amateur has done been in the situation where they were expected to be beaten. And they will get praise for pretty much any ability that they show, win or lose. That person still needs to put in the time and deal with the hardships of a training camp. And he's still putting his body on the line since you can get hurt in there.

    Why is someone who has nothing to lose regarding reputation an attention whore for still wanting to go in there?
  5. Devil is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/12/2012 11:47am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lampa View Post
    Well, my next question would be the same regardless of your response. I was just curious as to where you were coming from.

    Especially in amateur competitions; where the environment is viewed more as a learning experience, no money is on the line, and a loss doesn't really follow anyone around, what exactly is the problem with taking a fight you're expected to lose?

    Just about anyone who doesn't look like much that stepped in as an amateur has done been in the situation where they were expected to be beaten. And they will get praise for pretty much any ability that they show, win or lose. That person still needs to put in the time and deal with the hardships of a training camp. And he's still putting his body on the line since you can get hurt in there.

    Why is someone who has nothing to lose regarding reputation an attention whore for still wanting to go in there?
    Simple. It's retarded to go compete when you aren't capable of competing. It only inconveniences your competitors. I'm even willing to give Kyle Maynard a pass with his grappling. But MMA? Give me a break. He can't compete in MMA, period. He. Has. Stubs. For. Arms. And. Legs.

    Just like the wee man in OP's video. Arms and/or legs are a prerequisite for karate. Not that he's trying to compete. But he's putting himself on display and making himself a freakshow for the sole purpose of saying "Ooh, look at me everyone! I'm handicapable!" Just because someone is a cripple doesn't mean they can't be vain as hell too.
  6. Lampa is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/12/2012 12:33pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    Simple. It's retarded to go compete when you aren't capable of competing. It only inconveniences your competitors. I'm even willing to give Kyle Maynard a pass with his grappling. But MMA? Give me a break. He can't compete in MMA, period. He. Has. Stubs. For. Arms. And. Legs.

    Just like the wee man in OP's video. Arms and/or legs are a prerequisite for karate. Not that he's trying to compete. But he's putting himself on display and making himself a freakshow for the sole purpose of saying "Ooh, look at me everyone! I'm handicapable!" Just because someone is a cripple doesn't mean they can't be vain as hell too.
    Well, in regards to karate, he was going the forms competition which, if I was forced to break it down to its simplest points, is dancing around and looking silly in front of people. He seems to accomplish that well enough.

    I'll admit that Maynard in MMA presented some issues. Even with just the basic rules of what constitutes a downed fighter. But, since its not a tournament format no other fighter was forced to take a bout with Maynard. So, what you describe as an inconvenience is voluntary.

    I'm not arguing that there is a level of vanity involved. I'm just still not seeing the fundamental difference between that vanity and the vanity of anyone who has no intention of turning pro and a completely different career. Either way, the fighter in question is doing it to see what it's like and enjoy putting on a show for the crowd, rather than grooming himself for something better.

    I think your problem with Maynard in MMA stems from the thought that he himself believed he had no chance of winning and was just there as a freak show. I will say, the kid moves fast for someone with stumps. Scary fast, even. Like a Silent Hill monster.

    Not fast enough to catch someone that's just trying to stick and move, but fast enough that I can see him thinking he could catch the guy and out point him with top control. So, he gave it a shot, once, and then when it became painfully obvious that even his incredible stump speed was no match for fully developed legs, went back to grappling and working out.

    I don't see the problem in giving him credit for trying. He could have reasonably thought he had a chance to win, and he still had to take his lumps like everyone else getting in there. Is it really offensive that people are impressed that he wasn't scared to try?
  7. Devil is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/12/2012 1:03pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's not offensive. I just find the whole thing extremely funny. I respect people who know their limitations and don't make a spectacle of themselves just to prove a point that "they can do anything." No, they can't do anything. Neither can I. That's why I don't go around making a fool of myself when I have zero chance of success. Pushing yourself is one thing. Intentionally biting off more than you can chew or participating in an activity where you lack the basic tools to compete is laughable. It's not worthy of respect. It's a freak show.
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