Thread: True history of ninjitsu?
4/08/2012 6:41pm, #11
4/08/2012 8:43pm, #12
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Baltimore, Maryland
Yeah, a lot of "history" articles on ninja that appear in the West are contaminated by Booj ideas and perpetuate many myths. If you repeat something often enough, it takes on the aura of truth. And for that reason, I don't think a "myth versus reality" thread would deter any ninjer (tween, teen, or supposed adult) from defending their faith.
The other problem is that "reality" isn't firmly defined. "Ninja" is a relatively recent catch-all term used to retroactvely describe Japanese feudal period spies, saboteurs, and "commandos." There were many different terms used at the time that describe different roles and responsibilities. While it is possible to point with some certainty at the existence of spies and troops engaged in unconventional military activities, it might not be easy to agree on which of them really count as "ninja" in the sense modern pop culture uses the term. Is the castle steward who sells secrets he overhears a ninja? Is the agent handler who buys the secrets a ninja? Is the samurai officer who collects intelligence from a network of agents and handlers a ninja? Is the samurai who engages in a stealthy raid to penetrate a besieged castle a ninja? What about an ashigaru who patrols and ranges the frontier of his daimyo's domain to protect against bandits, is he a ninja?
4/12/2012 9:13pm, #13
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- The Land Of Processed Meat And Internet Trolls
- Goju ryu, Boxing, BJJ
4/13/2012 2:12am, #14
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
- Muay Thai/Wrestling
4/13/2012 7:10am, #15
I worked out with a Taijutsu practitioner in Florida, and his martial arts were spot-on. He wasn't delusional, though; he knew to separate the kabuki and hocus pocus from his training. He claimed Taijutsu and not ninjitsu, although he referenced it and gave credit.
4/18/2012 5:10pm, #16
the primary issue with Bujinkan so-called "History" is that you have no idea what is stolen from other sources & what's just made up. For example, one of the more well known quotes that Hatsumi attributes to Takamatsu was where Takamatsu claimed to have bein like a tiger when he was a young man running around fighting, while later in life he was more like a cat than a tiger. This quote is likely stolen from Sunryu Suzuki's book "Zen Mind, Beginners Mind" where Suzuk-roshi attributed it to his Soto Zen teacher Gyokujun So-on-daiosho. Now, granted, this may have been a popular little saying back in the day, something that many old men said, but we have it in print from Suzuki-roshi at least as early as 1973. & it's a common thing to say to Bujinkan folks that they should just train, not to meditate, that if they just train that it's like meditation and that they can get the same benefits from martial arts as from zazen or meditation. Which of course is bullshit."Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***
"The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19
"Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
5/15/2012 8:07am, #17
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
- FMA, JJ, Judo
Dirctly linking many of the schools of the Bujinkan back to anywhere beyond Takamatsu is, well.....impossible? No proof has come forth of Takamatsu training with Toda Shinryuken Masamitsu.
The thing isin the Bujinkan the ONLY two schools with verifiable lineages are the Kukishin Ryu and the Takagi Yoshin Ryu. o as far as Ninjutsu/Ninpo having a direct link back to Fuedal Japan, I am not so sure about Togakure/Kumogakure/Gyokushin Ryu (in recent years Gyokushin Ryu has been called a Koppojutsu school, while when I first began in the Buj in 1996 it was a ninjutsu school.)
I contacted many (many years ago) a Hontai Yoshin School in Kentucky (I believe?) inquiring about visiting and training some. I informed them I was at the time a member of the Bujinkan. They said I was not allowed to train with them.
This puzzled me. :yaoming:
Turns out what it was basically, they have a direct lineage that isn't tarnished by BS and therefore they are not having any BS come their way.
Can't says I blame them. :EWBTE2:
I left the Bujinkan because they embellished on their lineages on 6-7 of the ryu-ha. If I do anything similar from here on out it would be with the Genbukan. For now, I'm very happy with the JJ/Judo and FMA I am studying. I left the Bujinkan comletely a couple of years ago. I had been cross-training since I began MA in 1996, but I decided it was time to let go of something old to make room for something new.
So far as it goes, if I do practice anything from the Buj, its only those two schools alone.
5/15/2012 8:42am, #18
Here is my contribution:
There once was a failing film company called Cannon. They sold out to the Golan group (Israeli expats). The Jews decided to make their fortune with ninja flicks.
Thus, the popular culture idea of ninjitsu was born. All the modern ideas of what ninjas are and what they do came from these Israeli made films.
So, next time you're watching any of my favorite ninja films, Ninja 3, Revenge of the Ninja, or American Ninja, just remember, its nothing more than what us yidden decided to sell to you goyem.
5/15/2012 8:56am, #19
This is for white kimbo
Last edited by Colin; 5/15/2012 9:06am at .
5/15/2012 9:25am, #20
I love it.
If you want an idea of the happy parts of my childhood, watch the sho kosugi movies that feature his son (revenge of the ninja and pray for death for starters) and imagine the little ninja kid is a tall skinny 9 year old Jewish boy.
I had a ninja fort in my back yard and everything.
Last edited by omoplatypus; 5/15/2012 9:29am at .