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  1. Shawarma is online now

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    Posted On:
    4/07/2012 8:02pm


     

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    True history of ninjitsu?

    I feel deeply ashamed of posting such a noob thread, especially one on ninjas, but I would like to learn about whether modern "ninjitsu" actually has a legitimate link to ancient feudal Japanese assassins and whether these original ninjas ever really existed in the sense understood by modern pop culture.
    Also, what significance does Hatsumi's ninja scrolls have? Are they actually the genuine article?

    I didn't find satisfactory answers through the search function. I'm sure this has been discussed before, so if anyone could please point me to the relevant threads or posts, I'd be grateful.
  2. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/07/2012 8:59pm

    supporting member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawarma View Post
    I feel deeply ashamed of posting such a noob thread, especially one on ninjas, but I would like to learn about whether modern "ninjitsu" actually has a legitimate link to ancient feudal Japanese assassins and whether these original ninjas ever really existed in the sense understood by modern pop culture.
    no, and no.

    Also, what significance does Hatsumi's ninja scrolls have? Are they actually the genuine article?
    none, and no, they are not.

    I didn't find satisfactory answers through the search function. I'm sure this has been discussed before, so if anyone could please point me to the relevant threads or posts, I'd be grateful.
    you're welcome. there are extensive threads about this topic.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
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  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/07/2012 9:17pm

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  4. old chestnut is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2012 4:11am


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    There is only one true ninja scroll:
  5. old chestnut is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2012 4:13am


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    (apologies for the two posts, needed one more to post the link)
  6. Shawarma is online now

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2012 4:33am


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    you're welcome. there are extensive threads about this topic.
    And I couldn't find them through the search engine. I'd appreciate it if someone could point me to the thread discussing these claims. I recall in particular that Asia had a thing or two to say about the legitimacy of the ninja legend, but I couldn't dredge up the particular posts.

    Thanks for the Bujinkan link as this elaborates on Hatsumi's scrolls a bit (Yes they're real, no, you can't see them!). I would still like some information on the existence of ancient ninjas vs white guys in pyjamas and face masks today and just how the latter came into existence.
  7. Jujutsuka desu is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2012 4:15pm


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    Shawarma, I can explain in PM if you want. Because I am pretty sure a lot of these guys don't want to run over the Ninjutsu questions over and over again or see it.
  8. Styygens is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2012 5:17pm


     Style: BBT/BJJ/CJKD

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    Shawarma; is there some reason for your interest?
  9. Plasma is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2012 5:33pm

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    I am pretty sure I have typed this out before but I am trying to get back into posting on Bullshido so what the hell.

    When it comes to Ninjutsu what you really have is a series of esponaige tactics and related techniques that was part of numerous Ko-ryu Bujutsu schools. The few of these schools left do include a small section on Ninjutsu. It wasn't a martial art as fighting was covered in the Bujutsu elements of the school.

    Now Modern day Ninjutsu is the Ko-ryu arts that are decended from the Iga and Koga Regions of Japan. While you have some arts like Gyokko-ryu and Koto-ryu that claim lineage to the Iga Region Momochi Clan there isn't an unbroken lineage of proof and it is not reconginzed by the Ko-ryu Governing boards. There no recognized Koga region arts either. You also have Togakure-ryu which is more a collection of "forgotten" Ninjutsu techniques put together into its own tradition circa the 1950s.

    When is comes to the Bujinkan or Genbukan, really their fighting techniques are Jujutsu with some older Ninjutsu tactics and strategy left over from feudal Japan.
  10. Shawarma is online now

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2012 6:23pm


     

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    Interesting, Kagekaze. Thanks for spelling it out.

    My interest is purely academic, seeing as I recently read an article on feudal ninjas in a magazine on history and would like to know just to what extent the non-ninja historian who wrote it was hoodwinked by Hollywood bullshit, seeing as she presented Hatsumi as being some kind of living ninja god and generally seemed to buy into the "mysterious superhuman assassin" thing too much to my liking.

    A few questions I have based on that article:

    1. Did ninja "clans" ever exist or is this a western pop culture invention? Were ninjas ever anything but thugs with blades or did "secret ninja societies of shadow and badass" exist?
    2. Article cited numerous ninjer weapons including wall-scaling gloves, kunai, fighting claws and choke-chain lassos. Do these weapons have any historical basis or were they developed in recent times for their coolness factor?
    3. Did widespread ninjitsu training in Japan actually take place before the 80ies ninja craze and widespread commercialisation by the Bujinkan? How much has movie portrayal of ninjas influenced the practise of modern ninjitsu?
    4. I believe it has been mentioned previously that the Bujinkan is regarded as somewhat of a joke in Japan. Are any of the other schools regarded more favourably or is the whole style seen by the Japanese as a cultural curiosity you export to stupid westerners but don't take seriously yourself?

    Trying to seperate fact from fiction using the internet is next to impossible in this age of Naruto. I think a "historical ninja reality vs Hollywood modern myths" thread might be in order if someone in the know could be arsed to write it. Might deter some of the sillier ninja teenagers coming to the site to defend their lethal assassination art.
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