Wing Chun can't stop failing

**BKR** · Posted On: 4/16/2012 7:05am

Originally Posted by qbe9584

I thought of a term; "technical incest." It's a technique in an art that only works against techniques within that art. Fencing and freestyle wrestling has some. It comes with being point sports. I wonder how much chun technique is only meant to be applied with other chunners.

Which technique(s) from Freestyle Wrestling only "work" against Freestyle wrestlers?

Seriously, name one.

**qbe9584** · Posted On: 4/16/2012 7:27am

Back control without taking the throat. You can't because of the rule set. Open palm cross-faces which are an artifact of gaming a system that doesn't let you strike. It doesn't mean that the competition isn't good or the athletes aren't top notch, but the technique is for scoring points. Some of it can be used for fighting, but some can't. With Chun, I wonder how much of it is just for countering Chun.

**Chili Pepper** · Posted On: 4/16/2012 8:03am

Originally Posted by qbe9584

With Chun, I wonder how much of it is just for countering Chun.

All of it.

It's predicated on their elbow-down punch, and falls apart quickly outside of that.

***jnp*** · Posted On: 4/16/2012 8:50am

Originally Posted by qbe9584

Back control without taking the throat. You can't because of the rule set. Open palm cross-faces which are an artifact of gaming a system that doesn't let you strike. It doesn't mean that the competition isn't good or the athletes aren't top notch, but the technique is for scoring points. Some of it can be used for fighting, but some can't. With Chun, I wonder how much of it is just for countering Chun.

I fail to see how a freestyle wrestler's skills would desert him if he was taking a person's back who wasn't a freestyle wrestler himself. Or did you mean to say the rules of a sport dictates the set of allowable techniques?

**mike321** · Posted On: 4/16/2012 10:09am

Originally Posted by jnp

I fail to see how a freestyle wrestler's skills would desert him if he was taking a person's back who wasn't a freestyle wrestler himself. Or did you mean to say the rules of a sport dictates the set of allowable techniques?

It's not the skills going away, it's certain techniques that would be dropped because they were designed for dealing with issues within a system. I am not a boxer/kickboxer so i may mess this up but I think ducking a punch might be an example. The technique is based on punching. Knees change the equation. The technique goes away but not all of the boxing skills.

**qbe9584** · Posted On: 4/16/2012 10:48am

The point i was trying to make is that while every technique will have techniques that are only useful if the person is fighting within your style and agreeing to your rule set, if you take wrestling or boxing outside of the rule set, you still have some impressive skills and conditioning. Chun just looks like a mess, but I've never studied it, so I can't say with authority other than their fighters tend to get mauled.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 4/16/2012 4:16pm

Originally Posted by mike321

It's not the skills going away, it's certain techniques that would be dropped because they were designed for dealing with issues within a system. I am not a boxer/kickboxer so i may mess this up but I think ducking a punch might be an example. The technique is based on punching. Knees change the equation. The technique goes away but not all of the boxing skills.

You need to find another technique because I've seen ducking work for EVERY art. Yes, even wrestlers in MMA.

**mike321** · Posted On: 4/16/2012 5:05pm

Originally Posted by It is Fake

You need to find another technique because I've seen ducking work for EVERY art. Yes, even wrestlers in MMA.

True, I said I might mess it up. I still believe sparring exclusively within a system results in some changes to the style. I need better striking examples!

**Permalost** · Posted On: 4/16/2012 5:22pm

Originally Posted by mike321

True, I said I might mess it up. I still believe sparring exclusively within a system results in some changes to the style. I need better striking examples!

You'd probably have better luck examining a taekwondo example.

**qbe9584** · Posted On: 4/21/2012 10:00am

Taekwondo is too easy. Hands, down to cover the target area.
As far as combat sports go, wrestling and boxing are the gold standard. But even they have a few weak spots that occur because of a rule set derived from fighting other boxers/wrestlers.
Someone earlier pointed out the idea that there should be a reevaluation of the dictum "it's the fighter, not the art." I think wc is the art to disprove that: dedicated practitioners who can't handle any technique from outside wc. The more they train, the less adaptable they get, or at least it look like that for this film.