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  1. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    4/16/2012 7:05am

    Join us... or die

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by qbe9584 View Post
    I thought of a term; "technical incest." It's a technique in an art that only works against techniques within that art. Fencing and freestyle wrestling has some. It comes with being point sports. I wonder how much chun technique is only meant to be applied with other chunners.
    Which technique(s) from Freestyle Wrestling only "work" against Freestyle wrestlers?

    Seriously, name one.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  2. qbe9584 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/16/2012 7:27am


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    Wing Chun can't stop failing

    Back control without taking the throat. You can't because of the rule set. Open palm cross-faces which are an artifact of gaming a system that doesn't let you strike. It doesn't mean that the competition isn't good or the athletes aren't top notch, but the technique is for scoring points. Some of it can be used for fighting, but some can't. With Chun, I wonder how much of it is just for countering Chun.
  3. Chili Pepper is online now
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    Senior Member

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    Siling Labuyo Arnis
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    Posted On:
    4/16/2012 8:03am


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    Quote Originally Posted by qbe9584 View Post
    With Chun, I wonder how much of it is just for countering Chun.
    All of it.

    It's predicated on their elbow-down punch, and falls apart quickly outside of that.
  4. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    BJJ, wrestling
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    Posted On:
    4/16/2012 8:50am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by qbe9584 View Post
    Back control without taking the throat. You can't because of the rule set. Open palm cross-faces which are an artifact of gaming a system that doesn't let you strike. It doesn't mean that the competition isn't good or the athletes aren't top notch, but the technique is for scoring points. Some of it can be used for fighting, but some can't. With Chun, I wonder how much of it is just for countering Chun.
    I fail to see how a freestyle wrestler's skills would desert him if he was taking a person's back who wasn't a freestyle wrestler himself. Or did you mean to say the rules of a sport dictates the set of allowable techniques?
    Shut the hell up and train.
  5. mike321 is online now

    Senior Member

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    kenpo, Wrestling
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    Posted On:
    4/16/2012 10:09am


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    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    I fail to see how a freestyle wrestler's skills would desert him if he was taking a person's back who wasn't a freestyle wrestler himself. Or did you mean to say the rules of a sport dictates the set of allowable techniques?
    It's not the skills going away, it's certain techniques that would be dropped because they were designed for dealing with issues within a system. I am not a boxer/kickboxer so i may mess this up but I think ducking a punch might be an example. The technique is based on punching. Knees change the equation. The technique goes away but not all of the boxing skills.
  6. qbe9584 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/16/2012 10:48am


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    Wing Chun can't stop failing

    The point i was trying to make is that while every technique will have techniques that are only useful if the person is fighting within your style and agreeing to your rule set, if you take wrestling or boxing outside of the rule set, you still have some impressive skills and conditioning. Chun just looks like a mess, but I've never studied it, so I can't say with authority other than their fighters tend to get mauled.
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Administrator

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    xingyi
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    Posted On:
    4/16/2012 4:16pm

    staff

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike321 View Post
    It's not the skills going away, it's certain techniques that would be dropped because they were designed for dealing with issues within a system. I am not a boxer/kickboxer so i may mess this up but I think ducking a punch might be an example. The technique is based on punching. Knees change the equation. The technique goes away but not all of the boxing skills.
    You need to find another technique because I've seen ducking work for EVERY art. Yes, even wrestlers in MMA.
  8. mike321 is online now

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    4/16/2012 5:05pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    You need to find another technique because I've seen ducking work for EVERY art. Yes, even wrestlers in MMA.
    True, I said I might mess it up. I still believe sparring exclusively within a system results in some changes to the style. I need better striking examples!
  9. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs
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    Posted On:
    4/16/2012 5:22pm

    supporting member

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mike321 View Post
    True, I said I might mess it up. I still believe sparring exclusively within a system results in some changes to the style. I need better striking examples!
    You'd probably have better luck examining a taekwondo example.
  10. qbe9584 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/21/2012 10:00am


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    Wing Chun can't stop failing

    Taekwondo is too easy. Hands, down to cover the target area.
    As far as combat sports go, wrestling and boxing are the gold standard. But even they have a few weak spots that occur because of a rule set derived from fighting other boxers/wrestlers.
    Someone earlier pointed out the idea that there should be a reevaluation of the dictum "it's the fighter, not the art." I think wc is the art to disprove that: dedicated practitioners who can't handle any technique from outside wc. The more they train, the less adaptable they get, or at least it look like that for this film.
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