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  1. #11

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    Aug 2009
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, I know for a fact that the people teaching Aikido have never learned it off anyone legitimate. And what they're teaching isn't even Aikido. Same with the sword. I also know that these people are still part of the BAMA but are pretending not to be.

    I started the thread to bring it to people's attention. And to try and stop people being unwittingly drawn into a well know Martial Arts cult.

    Mods - what backup are you looking for?

  2. #12

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Some answers to Eddie Hardon's questions would be a start, or at least a better answer than "no idea".

    To aid your cause I've just sent them the following email:

    Good afternoon

    I'm interested in the spread of traditional karate in the UK. Having been directed to your website I wonder whether you'd be kind enough to answer a few short questions for me?

    What is the lineage of the karate which you instruct? Is it directly traceable to its Okinawan or Japanese roots?

    I notice you have held a seminar on kobudo techniques? Again, could you tell me the style and lineage of the kobudo instruction?

    Has your club been approved by the UK's Martial Arts Standards Agency, satisfying its core guidelines?
    The MASA Five means that every club instructor should have:
    A Black Belt or equivalent in the martial art being taught.
    An approved coaching qualification (NVQ or equivalent).
    5 million Professional Indemnity Insurance.
    An enhanced CRB disclosure.
    A clear pricing policy with no hidden charges.

    In case you were wondering I train in Shorin Ryu as a student of the Shorinkan organisation. The head of the organisation is Shugoro Nakazato who has a traceable karate lineage through Chosin Chibana back to Anko Itosu, and a kobudo lineage through Seiro Tonaki to Sanda Chinen.

    Many thanks for taking the time to read this email and I look forward to hearing from you.

    Kind regards

    Andy
    Perhaps they'll put your mind at rest? Let's wait and see.

  3. #13
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Jan 2005
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    34,442
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by StraightUpMA View Post
    Well, I know for a fact that the people teaching Aikido have never learned it off anyone legitimate. And what they're teaching isn't even Aikido. Same with the sword. I also know that these people are still part of the BAMA but are pretending not to be.

    I started the thread to bring it to people's attention. And to try and stop people being unwittingly drawn into a well know Martial Arts cult.

    Mods - what backup are you looking for?
    You know for a fact?

    Here is an academic research tool. I want you to look at every post you have made and see if they follow any of those basic principles.
    http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/559/1/

    Your posts reflect nothing in the above document. You may have done everything listed, but you have not presented it in the fashion described in that link.

  4. #14

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    Aug 2009
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sorry, I thought this was to bring places to people's attention and raise an investigation. Seems I misunderstood slightly. Let's see what answers they come up with.

  5. #15

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    London
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by StraightUpMA View Post
    Sorry, I thought this was to bring places to people's attention and raise an investigation. Seems I misunderstood slightly. Let's see what answers they come up with.
    Really, you just made an unsupported assertion on their competency. You have provided no evidence of your ability to judge the Arts they are offering to teach.
    - Have you trained in Aikido? If so, to what level? If not, how are you qualified to criticise?
    - Karate. As above.
    - Self Defence. As above.
    - Kobudo. As above.

    Their website does not appear to tie the prospective student to an open-ended or limited Contract with a monthly subscription. In fact, they offer free membership and a 'pay as you train' approach. This seems commendable. If you don't train, you don't pay and can just walk away.

    Here's what their front page states:

    "Wisewarrior

    ...providing personal martial arts tuition to all.

    Our instructors have been teaching martial art skills to individual adults for over 10 years, we believe it is the best way to truly teach a subject as great as this. Try us and find out for your self.

    Start a passion or just learn some amazing life skills with your personal black-belt instructor.

    Wisewarrior can provide you with a lesson tailored to meet your needs at a time convenient to you!

    No contracts, simply pay as you train.

    FREE Membership. "

    Now, can you offer any answers to my questions?

  6. #16
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    34,442
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by StraightUpMA View Post
    Sorry, I thought this was to bring places to people's attention and raise an investigation. Seems I misunderstood slightly. Let's see what answers they come up with.
    Really? You misunderstood what? That this isn't a place to air what ifs? Yes, you can raise questions and get an investigation started if you do it correctly. Saying they are part of a cult and that they shouldn't be teaching means nothing. You need basic facts of why you feel this way. "I know for a fact" is not evidence.

    So, you sent an email, what was the response?
    Last edited by It is Fake; 4/10/2012 3:56pm at .

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, you guys have sent an email so let's see what happens. I wasn't quite expecting the hostility to be honest. Look, they're part of another organisation that's been proved on here and numerous other forums to be fraudulent at best, a cult at worst. And they're not clearly displaying that fact on their website. All the criticisms levelled at the Bama surely apply to them too? They're not a breakaway, they're exactly the same thing under a different name. Just thought it was wirth bringing that to people's attention.

  8. #18

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    Aug 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Hardon View Post
    Tell us more:
    - Who taught them and assessed them for Dan Grade?

    Pete Delane. Who awarded himself his 4th dan in a pub having broken away from John Alexander's Zen Shin Ryu.
    - Do they carry Personal Indemnity Insurance for claims against injury by their students?
    Very much doubt it. The BAMA never did.

    - Do the Students pay for MA Insurance annually?
    - If so, to whom? If not, why not? As above

    - Are they trained in Emergency Aid? Do they have the (in-date) Certificate? As above.
    - Are there Syllabi for Aikido, Karate, Self-Defence Classes, Kobudo? Karate, yes. There never was for the other stuff. The Aikido was basically Karate with locks that Delane learned from a book.

    - Is the Kobudo kata based? If so, where did it originate? No. In Delane's head

    That'll do for a start.

    Thanks

    You're very welcome.

  9. #19

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    Apr 2012
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    London
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is Karat World (also of Cheltenham) anything to do with these guys? I recognise one of the guys from it Im sure...

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    So, you sent an email, what was the response?
    I sent the email. They've yet to reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by tmorterlaing View Post
    Is Karat World (also of Cheltenham) anything to do with these guys? I recognise one of the guys from it Im sure...
    I've met some of the Karate World crowd and they are legit. One of the senior guys was on the same England squad as my instructor.

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