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Thread: MMA and TMA

  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs View Post
    First there are no TMAs:
    BJJ is older than Taekwondo, Muay Thai (a sportrule for Muay Boran styles) outdates some of the more known and popular CMA styles (Northern Shaolin for example).

    If there's a Martial Art/Combat Sport that can be considered ancient, it would be Wrestling, unfortunally how the first forms of Wrestling looked like isn't really known.
    We have indications of certain "rules" and certain techniques (through descriptions, pictures and statues) and a human body is limited in ways that it can be moved, so we can make educated guesses.
    The one thing that we know for certain is that it could be trained with aliveness.

    There's the great distinction: Martial Arts that can be trained with aliveness and Martial Arts that can't be trained with aliveness.

    About your setting of the goalposts: first it was everyone that could be considered an MMAer, now that you found out that most MMAers have a background in MAwA (Martial arts with Aliveness), it became "people who train in only MMA" a.k.a. "slapped together techniques that work in a cage according to you".

    Well what are "TMAs" more than just a codified system of slapped together techniques by one person in history. Some are pressure tested (like Judo), others weren't (like Wing Chun and Northern Shoalin).
    The only difference is that "MMA" are slapped together techniques that are tried and tested in a simulation that comes closests to an actual fight and don't give that crap of multiple vs one, because noone has shown a "TMA" that is designed and works in reality for multiple vs one scenarios...ever.

    Yes, if I would still be interested by your little antics once this thread hits YMAS or Trollshido I would start to play a lot less "nicer" because you have come here on your high horse, insulted everyone with your rant and you don't want a discussion at all because you are nothing more than a closeminded dork.
    So many factual errors + a personal insult, very sophisticated. Might be a little bit of an over-reaction to say i insulted everyone. BTW there seems to be a bit of a double standard on what is an insult here.

    Thank you all, you have confirmed what others have told me about Bullshido, enjoy your training, bye bye

  2. #62
    gregaquaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdog31 View Post
    I think your responding to the wrong quote but no problem. Of course my TMA gives me all of those things.
    Thanks I am having munted shoulder issues.

    But if there are similar objectives then comparisons can be made. And should be. I dont believe we should stifle discussion on the subect just to conform to the social norms that martial arts have created.

    Otherwise we would all believe yellow bamboo works.

    The question really is are you starting from the premis of TMA works and then trying to make an argument as to why. Or are you looking at what is effective though testing and and coming to a X style works because of that.
    Last edited by gregaquaman; 4/06/2012 2:38am at .
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  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregaquaman View Post
    Thanks I am having munted shoulder issues.

    But if there are similar objectives then comparisons can be made. And should be. I dont believe we should stifle discussion on the subect just to conform to the social norms that martial arts have created.

    Otherwise we would all believe yellow bamboo works.
    Agreed. I think there are instances when direct comparisons, on style in particular, cannot be made. Im guessing here that MMA guys probably focus on physical condition a bit more than the standard Karate/kung fu etc practitioner, given that they are training to go and compete , much like a muay thai fighter. What im trying to say is that, hypothetically, it would be good to see different styles compete when they are both in fighting condition.

    For instance I would really like to see someone like Andy Hug compete with MMA fighters

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdog31 View Post
    Agreed. I think there are instances when direct comparisons, on style in particular, cannot be made. Im guessing here that MMA guys probably focus on physical condition a bit more than the standard Karate/kung fu etc practitioner, given that they are training to go and compete , much like a muay thai fighter. What im trying to say is that, hypothetically, it would be good to see different styles compete when they are both in fighting condition.

    For instance I would really like to see someone like Andy Hug compete with MMA fighters
    Mark hunt is doing MMA now. You can even nut ride Machida if you want your Krotty fix. The problem is a pure stylist would be eaten alive in a MMA comp against a decent oponant.

    Bullshido by the way is the same. It is where you test you ideas against direct competition. You need to make sure your **** is in order before you come out with a statement or you will be told about it.

    Personally I like that about the site.

    What are your instances that comparison cannot be made?
    Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
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  5. #65
    ChenPengFi's Avatar
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    ...the two are totally different, there is no way to compare...
    I think there are instances when direct comparisons, on style in particular, cannot be made.
    Which is it?

  6. #66
    Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdog31 View Post
    So many factual errors + a personal insult, very sophisticated. Might be a little bit of an over-reaction to say i insulted everyone. BTW there seems to be a bit of a double standard on what is an insult here.

    Thank you all, you have confirmed what others have told me about Bullshido, enjoy your training, bye bye
    Ku Yu Cheung (1894-1952) created Bak Sil Lum (Northern Shoalin Kung-Fu), before him there was no Bak Sil Lum, he lumped techniques together that he learned from several other 'Kung-Fu' systems.

    The last codification of Muay Thai happend in 1921 under King Rama VII (adding of timed rounds, boxing gloves and a roped ring), yet the early sportstyle started to emerge under the reign of King Rama V (19th century).

    The style of Taekwondo was created (as an offshoot of Shotokan Karate) between 1946 and 1952 and got the name "Taekwondo" officially on April, 11th 1955

    BJJ started in 1917 when Maeda started to train the Gracie brothers, yet the style was then original called Gracie Jiu Jitsu.
    We can describe the pivotal point for the term "BJJ" at the moment that a none Gracie started his own school, which would have been before April, 11th 1955.

    Wing Chun has not been pressure tested or it wouldn't look like it looks today. See the "fighting style" of WCers that compete. Other posters can give you names or you can use the search function and youtube.

    "Wrestling" is the oldest form of Martial Arts known to man, probably followed by Pankration (Wrestling with punching) and later "Boxing", yet we aren't 100% sure what exactly the rules and techniques were of ancient "Wrestling", "Pankration" and "Boxing".
    Yet we know that they were trained with aliveness.

    Calling you a "dork" isn't an insult, it's stating the obvious.
    You won't empty your cup, so just get back on your high horse and ride into the sunset with the knowledge that you showed all those brutish uncivilized MMAers what a real TMAer is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiujitsu77
    You know you are crazy about BJJ/Martial arts when...
    Quote Originally Posted by Humanzee
    ...your books on Kama Sutra and BJJ are interchangeable.
    Quote Originally Posted by jk55299 on Keysi Fighting Method
    It looks like this is a great fighting method if someone replaces your shampoo with superglue.
    The real deadly:

  7. #67
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdog31 View Post
    So many factual errors + a personal insult, very sophisticated. Might be a little bit of an over-reaction to say i insulted everyone. BTW there seems to be a bit of a double standard on what is an insult here.

    Thank you all, you have confirmed what others have told me about Bullshido, enjoy your training, bye bye
    This is why people/posters can be punk bitches. This CONFIRMS you came here to lecture people. If you were warned about this forum why come here at all?

    Oh and learn what "double standard" means.

  8. #68

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    Guys. Stop feeding the troll. The guy is as insightful as a glass of water.

  9. #69
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    This is the one part that does have an error. It has been pressure tested, like many krotty, ninja, and kung fu school money and pain kept the crappy stuff alive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs View Post

    Wing Chun has not been pressure tested or it wouldn't look like it looks today.
    That's why chunners, who compete, get insulted for looking like kickboxers. You know the same complaint for most Kung Fu styles.








    Please don't.

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