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  1. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/24/2012 10:23pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Neo Sigma View Post
    I really do wonder why they keep pulling out the "dur hur i didn't know" card. Has anyone ever bought it in the history of pro sports? It's not like it works anyway. I wish they'd just cut Overeem, but money talks and bullshit walks.
    If they cut everyone who cheated in such a manner (and spent the money to test for it internally), their league would shrink.

    Rules are rules, but the lines between what's allowed, and what isn't, aren't that thick.

    If I had my way, everyone would fight at the weight they cut to, to be in that class. Weigh in right before you step in to fight, as well as the official "weigh in".

    Not sure I like the openly doing steroids thing, or where that would go, but isn't IMO, the most unfair thing going on. Fighting a guy 20 lbs heavier than yourself, b/c he gradually dehydrated himself and then drank up after weigh in, kinda screws with the honesty of the weight class thing.

    That said....DAMN YOU ALISTAIR!!!!! Fucked up a dream fight, for the ages. You did flatten Brock, a very satisfying thing, but ****, man.
  2. Shawarma is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/25/2012 4:18am


     

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    Having fighters fight at the weight they weigh in at is a fair idea, IMO, but potentially hazardous. Fighters wanting as big a weight advantage as possible will STILL weight cut like crazy for their fights and will end up fighting dehydrated and undernourished.

    The current system is safer and will also lend for more entertaining fights - fewer featherweights gassing as superheavies in the first round.
  3. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/25/2012 9:16am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawarma View Post
    Having fighters fight at the weight they weigh in at is a fair idea, IMO, but potentially hazardous. Fighters wanting as big a weight advantage as possible will STILL weight cut like crazy for their fights and will end up fighting dehydrated and undernourished.
    If you have to fight in the weight class limits, there isn't a weight advantage. That's my point.

    Would Jon Jones be winning like he is, if the 3 gallons of water he sheds in the lead up to the fight, couldn't be replaced the night before? IIRC a gallon of water weighs about 7 lbs.

    I don't have a problem with big guys wanting to squeeze into lower classes, but let them fight where they cut to.
  4. Neo Sigma is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/25/2012 9:19am


     Style: Muay Thai

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    Here's a recent report from a lawsuit against Overeem's totally legit, not at all shady doctor-

    http://media2.myfoxdfw.com/PDF/reportofexperts.pdf

    Yeah, so he's actually a plastic surgeon, and one of his last patients could have died from the horrible botch he made of her. So basically Overeem went to Dr. Nick.
  5. alex is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/25/2012 4:33pm

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     Style: Muay Thai

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    If you have to fight in the weight class limits, there isn't a weight advantage. That's my point.

    Would Jon Jones be winning like he is, if the 3 gallons of water he sheds in the lead up to the fight, couldn't be replaced the night before? IIRC a gallon of water weighs about 7 lbs.

    I don't have a problem with big guys wanting to squeeze into lower classes, but let them fight where they cut to.
    No, moron, what happens (and the reason why they do weigh ins the day before) is because fighters are stupid. they will do exactly the same thing they do now and just fight dehydrated. this is bad for the sport because fighting under those conditions means you are more susceptible to being badly fucked up. the way it is now, is about the safest you can make it.
  6. ChenPengFi is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/25/2012 4:42pm

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    The NCAA changed the rules to the same day, and apparently disagrees with you.

    In 1997, three collegiate wrestlers died within a six-week span because of extreme weight-loss techniques. All three were trying to lose weight by riding stationary bikes and refusing liquids; two were wearing rubber suits. As a result, the NCAA changed its rules regarding weigh-ins. Previously wrestlers weighed in the day before the tournament started; now they weigh in just a few hours before competing, giving them less time to recover from any extreme dehydration methods they may have taken to make weight.
    (my bold)
    http://cornellsun.com/node/26236
  7. CNagy is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/25/2012 5:39pm


     Style: Hiatus for Gen. Fitness

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    The NCAA changed the rules to the same day, and apparently disagrees with you.


    (my bold)
    http://cornellsun.com/node/26236
    The difference is whether you want competitors dying trying to cut weight, or dying during competition after they have cut weight. Well, that's a simplification, but it is the extreme results of the two approaches. The NCAA is trying to discourage extreme dehydration, but even they aren't going so far as weighing in right before the match.
    Last edited by CNagy; 4/25/2012 5:42pm at .
  8. alex is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/25/2012 5:56pm

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    wrestling doesnt have the money involved in it compared to boxing and mma. throw the kind of money top level boxers and ufc fighters get into wrestling and youd have the same problem. not with everyone obviously, but enough for it to be, imo, a bad idea.
  9. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/25/2012 8:02pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    wrestling doesnt have the money involved in it compared to boxing and mma. throw the kind of money top level boxers and ufc fighters get into wrestling and youd have the same problem. not with everyone obviously, but enough for it to be, imo, a bad idea.
    I respect that you actually take fights, and that you're in the game, so to speak. None of the fighters I bring this up with, agree with me on this, that I remember.

    This is just what I want, as a fan. The present arrangement favors the younger fighters, who's bodies can still take the dehydration. If it were the rule, then responsible coaches would have to book fights in a guy's actual weight class, or be doing him/her a disservice.

    That's just me, though. I'd have every fighter tested for every fight, and everyone fighting within the bounds of their weight class (unless it were openly a freak show fight...which I love - when it's extreme...see Genki Sudo vs. Butterbean).
  10. alex is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/05/2012 3:28am

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja View Post
    I respect that you actually take fights, and that you're in the game, so to speak. None of the fighters I bring this up with, agree with me on this, that I remember.

    This is just what I want, as a fan. The present arrangement favors the younger fighters, who's bodies can still take the dehydration. If it were the rule, then responsible coaches would have to book fights in a guy's actual weight class, or be doing him/her a disservice.

    That's just me, though. I'd have every fighter tested for every fight, and everyone fighting within the bounds of their weight class (unless it were openly a freak show fight...which I love - when it's extreme...see Genki Sudo vs. Butterbean).
    this part i bolded is the problem, imo. now im not saying every coach out there is a slimeball, far from it. i would trust my coach with my life. but, i have seen a lot of fighters with coaches/managers who need to be taken out back and shot. with the kind of money on the line in high level fighting, you really dont want people like Don King making that kind of call.
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