Fact or fiction? Rip a bull's heart out?

[taijidude]

Yes it's true. A kung foo master did rip a bulls heart out while the bull was still alive. It's really not all that difficult. The secret is to choose the correct point of entry, think "Texas heart shot".

I don't doubt that it's possible. I suspect if one spent a good portion of their lives dipping their fingers and hands repeatedly in everything from hot sand to boiling oil every day that they would develop the ability to pierce skin (or possibly a bull's flesh).

[Gezere]

I've heard stories of some Chinese(?) master who supposedly ripped the heart out of a live bull's chest during a professional fight back in the 70's. I can't find anything online that confirms this, but I've heard it several times over the years. Anyone know of this as being real or imagined?

If you haven't figured it out yet, NO its not true. It is impossible to do so. No has ever done it and no one ever will.

There is a well established legend about Mas Oyama, the founder of Kyokushin Karate, killing a bull with a hand strike to it's skull. I've never heard of any other martial legend associated with killing cattle. Then again, I'm hardly an expert in this subject.

Sokon "Bushi" Matsumura was also known to abuse cattle. There is a legend where he was supposed to fight a bull to show his prowess. He went to where the bull was being kept and basically tortured it (I think it was by sticking a needle up his nose or something). When it came the day of the "fight" when the bull saw Matsumura it ran off scared and people thought it was because of his incredible power. Matsumura was sort of the "Batman" of his day. Why waste energy fighting when you can prep the DZ and win by intimidation.

Yet another useless piece of MA history brought you by a decent Chianti.

[Rivington]

I suspect if one spent a good portion of their lives dipping their fingers and hands repeatedly in everything from hot sand to boiling oil every day that they would develop the ability to pierce skin (or possibly a bull's flesh).

I bet that someone who stuck their hand in boiling oil every day wouldn't be able to do very much with that hand at all.

[Permalost]

There is a well established legend about Mas Oyama, the founder of Kyokushin Karate, killing a bull with a hand strike to it's skull. I've never heard of any other martial legend associated with killing cattle. Then again, I'm hardly an expert in this subject.

There's also at least one well respected karateka (Blooming) who was Oyama's contemporary that said that Oyama's ability to chop the horns off was because they were sawed before the match so they would break off more easily.

The fight was supposedly a boxing match, and his feat was part of some exhibition. But that's just what I've *heard*, which is what I'm trying to determine as real or imagined.

Ridiculous claim aside, you need something more than "someone said that some guy did this thing at some time in some place, did it really happen?" Maybe a name, or source or something. My guess- total bullshit. Martial artists can exploit physics to break impressive amounts of hard objects (wood, ice, bricks) but soft tissue of a large animal is something very different. If it was true, it would be stupid and brutal and might cause some audience members to vomit.

I don't doubt that it's possible. I suspect if one spent a good portion of their lives dipping their fingers and hands repeatedly in everything from hot sand to boiling oil every day that they would develop the ability to pierce skin (or possibly a bull's flesh).

What you are describing might increase pain tolerance, but its not pain tolerance that would allow someone to pierce through skin with their hands.

The founder of the Appalachian snake handling church was bitten by many, many venomous snakes, and his hands became shriveled and decrepit, not kung fu death weapons. Administering dangerous substances to the hands generally doesn't make them tougher- it makes them weaker.

[Gezere]

I don't doubt that it's possible. I suspect if one spent a good portion of their lives dipping their fingers and hands repeatedly in everything from hot sand to boiling oil every day that they would develop the ability to pierce skin (or possibly a bull's flesh).

You are greatly underestimating human skin. Don't let the lil scrapes and cuts fool you your skin is pretty tough. No man is piercing it with there bare fingers regardless of what condition they do. Don't be fooled by parlor tricks.

[taijidude]

I bet that someone who stuck their hand in boiling oil every day wouldn't be able to do very much with that hand at all.

That kind of training would obviously have some serious long term effects. No concert piano playing in their future. But there's at least one episode of Fight Quest(?) (the one with Bill Duff) I think it was Silat, where they tried to get him to dunk his hands in a bowl of boiling coconut oil but he wouldn't, he said he'd leave that to the "professionals".

[Permalost]

That kind of training would obviously have some serious long term effects. No concert piano playing in their future. But there's at least one episode of Fight Quest(?) (the one with Bill Duff) I think it was Silat, where they tried to get him to dunk his hands in a bowl of boiling coconut oil but he wouldn't, he said he'd leave that to the "professionals".

Silat is kinda notorious for doing really stupid things to show off martial arts prowess. Ingesting molten lead, for instance. Some have beliefs that could only be described as magical. There's a video where a silat guy does some kind of energy meditation and says his skin will repel blades, then he cuts his arm open with a bolo and starts bleeding when he puts it to the test. Just because there's some old notions out there doesn't mean that what they do gives them superpowers.

[taijidude]

My understanding has been that that extreme training was designed not only to increase pain tolerance, but also to build bone strength. The whole plunging of hands into hot rice, sand, stones, etc.
The comment about skin toughness has me doing some research on the tensile strength of skin. Pretty interesting stuff.

[dflanmod]

You are greatly underestimating human skin. Don't let the lil scrapes and cuts fool you your skin is pretty tough. No man is piercing it with there bare fingers regardless of what condition they do. Don't be fooled by parlor tricks.

Bullshit. It can be done. You just have to chant "kali ma shakti de" before attempting. This is extremely well doccumented. Also helps if the cow chants "aum namah shivaya"

[Permalost]

My understanding has been that that extreme training was designed not only to increase pain tolerance, but also to build bone strength. The whole plunging of hands into hot rice, sand, stones, etc.

Weight baring and impact conditioning may help bone strength, but attacking your hand skin with heat and/or chemicals will not. It is unrelated.