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  1. #11

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I joined this group years ago. I held off on posting because of what you just proved. You are not smarter then me. You can not talk me in a circle. I am an educated man. You wont prove your point by attacking my character. Bias or not. Its one of the logical fallacies. Look back to my first post. Its black and white. I explained my training and asked a question.

    This has not been rant.
    Rant:
    1: to talk in a noisy, excited, or declamatory manner
    2: to scold vehemently
    transitive verb
    : to utter in a bombastic declamatory fashion

    I was told that this site wasn't really a platform for open dialog. I see they stood correct.

  2. #12
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fate112 View Post
    I joined this group years ago. I held off on posting because of what you just proved. You are not smarter then me. You can not talk me in a circle. I am an educated man. You wont prove your point by attacking my character. Bias or not. Its one of the logical fallacies. Look back to my first post. Its black and white. I explained my training and asked a question.
    Yes and it was answered. You then proceeded to add more to your posts that could be debated. You brought up MMA, Sport, Military and your offense at being asked about effectiveness. So, If addressing your various points are logical fallcies, that means your points are logical fallacies. Yes, I agree wholeheartedly.

    I haven't attacked your character, I attacked your argument. You are educated? Then stop personalizing the debate.


    This has not been rant.

    Rant:
    1: to talk in a noisy, excited, or declamatory manner
    2: to scold vehemently
    transitive verb
    : to utter in a bombastic declamatory fashion
    Yes, it can be construed as a rant:
    rant (rnt)
    v. rant·ed, rant·ing, rants
    v.intr.
    To speak or write in an angry or violent manner; rave.
    v.tr.
    To utter or express with violence or extravagance: a dictator who ranted his vitriol onto a captive audience.
    n.
    1. Violent or extravagant speech or writing.
    2. A speech or piece of writing that incites anger or violence: "The vast majority [of teenagers logged onto the Internet] did not encounter recipes for pipe bombs or deranged rants about white supremacy" (Daniel Okrent).
    3. Chiefly British Wild or uproarious merriment.

    I was told that this site wasn't really a platform for open dialog. I see they stood correct.
    You have to be open to criticism before you complain about openness. Yes, I know, openness to many TMAers means "listen to my words and voice no dissent." So, if that is what you mean by "open" they were correct.

    Bye.

  3. #13

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fate112 View Post
    For what its worth as a combat solder in the us army i used this martial art to protect my own life in Iraq.
    What are your thoughts of the effectiveness of what you've learned when compared to MACP (which most of us would consider taught in line with the principles of aliveness)?

  4. #14

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fate112 View Post
    It just seems more and more these days that an art isn't seen as effective unless there is a video of someone being hurt by it.
    Hard sparring and injury are not the same thing. I look for arts that are trained in a manner that increase the possibility that I can execute the techniques under pressure.

    When asked for videos, this is what people are looking for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fate112 View Post
    They view traditional arts and ask to see proof that it can do damage.
    I don't doubt that traditional arts *can* do damage. Where I get caught up is whether or not you train in a manner that will give you the chance to do damage when the SHTF.

  5. #15

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The modern army combatives are...well for want of a better work...lacking? They are a stream lined form of BJJ with some filler from old WW2-Vietnam era sentry elimination technique. They can be effective if practiced earnestly (like most arts) the problem is most solders only train in them in basic training and that's it. You hear a lot about people being level 1,2,3 trained. There are usually the only one or two people in the unit trained to those levels and are expected to come back and teach everyone else how to fight. Also most are practiced with stream lined gear (stripped down body armor. Just in uniform) When your in a combat zone you carry almost 150-190lbs of extra weight. That makes going for an arm bar in a combat zone dangerous if your out numbered. With a BJJ base you end up on the ground 9-10 times in single target combat. Also very few instructors at the unit lvl have a deep understanding of the techniques they learn and teach them only the way they were shown, as in "This is how I was shown to get this choke or lock. Now grapple and try and do it the way I was shown" This is a training fault not a fault of the person teaching.

    Hakko Denshin teaches how to defend yourself while staying standing (there is some ground work taught). It also teaches how to hold off multiple attackers. Its not full proof but taught me better how to defend myself then any of my combative classes in my 8yrs of army training did.

    I might add that I am lvl 2 certified.

    I hope I answered your question.

  6. #16

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm trying hard to find some video of anything that isn't slandered waza online. I'm hoping to find training partners again soon. If all else fails I will make a video so people can see how we use our art.

    If you like I can post some of the slandered waza's on the off chance your interested in seeing how Hakko Denshin looks practiced in the dojo. Our Honbu Waza look like most other schools of jujutsu and akido waza's.
    Last edited by Fate112; 4/01/2012 12:40am at .

  7. #17
    You have to work the look. supporting member
    CrackFox's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fate112 View Post
    In Hakko Denshin Ryu we train the same way many other traditional martial arts do. We have a list of pre-arranged waza. Those are the ones you must be able to demonstrate to gain the next belt...but also you must be able to free form any of the principle behind each waza. We are told from day one that the waza we practice agents each other from the manual will not save our lives...that we would be the luckiest people on earth if our opponent attacked us the way shown. Each waza teaches a principle of self-defense. During a belt test after the basics are shown you will be put through at least 60 situations to defend against. You will be told what principle to use and your attacker attacks however he/she wants. Also we do blind fold attack defense that is free form. We do multiple attackers that is free form. Would you consider this "Alive"?
    No, this wouldn't typically be considered alive training.

  8. #18

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Your training isn't alive from what you describe. The same type of training, with improvisation, loosening up the kata, is quite common in other arts, like in BBT.
    The problem is conditioning of uke instead of active resistance.

  9. #19

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fate122

    Judging on your posts and that website, I wouldn't say your art is alive. That's not bad, it doesn't mean it's wholly useless. I practise an art that isn't alive, and it's fine with me.

    It's useless feeling insulted about a technical qualification, and even more useless trying to defend it. To finish with a tournament motto of Edward III: It is as it is

  10. #20
    battlefields's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm still waiting for fate112 to write "April Foolzzzz" and be outed as IiF talking to himself. It's still April 1 over there, right?
    GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.

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