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  1. Fate112 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/31/2012 3:03pm


     Style: Hakko Denshin Ryu Jujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Hakko Denshin Ryu aliveness and more

    In Hakko Denshin Ryu we train the same way many other traditional martial arts do. We have a list of pre-arranged waza. Those are the ones you must be able to demonstrate to gain the next belt...but also you must be able to free form any of the principle behind each waza. We are told from day one that the waza we practice agents each other from the manual will not save our lives...that we would be the luckiest people on earth if our opponent attacked us the way shown. Each waza teaches a principle of self-defense. During a belt test after the basics are shown you will be put through at least 60 situations to defend against. You will be told what principle to use and your attacker attacks however he/she wants. Also we do blind fold attack defense that is free form. We do multiple attackers that is free form. Would you consider this "Alive"?
  2. Moenstah is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/31/2012 5:35pm


     Style: Nihon Koryu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'll bite:

    Also we do blind fold attack defense that is free form.
    I would not call this 'alive'

    We do multiple attackers that is free form.
    Are they taking turns attacking you? Is the attack prescribed or one of your waza or really up to their own mind? Is it with full resistance, and do they resist your techniques?

    Is your organisation linked to this one: http://www.hakkodenshinryu.com ?

    with its very entertaining 'history section' here?: http://www.hakkodenshinryu.com/histo...yu_jujutsu.htm
  3. Fate112 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/31/2012 6:24pm


     Style: Hakko Denshin Ryu Jujutsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    yes we are "linked" to that hakko denshin group...that system is named Kokodo Renmei. Same system but different name. There is a lot of politicking going on right now. I don't want any part of it. I'm here to learn and train...not be popular or become rich. The history of the art is very important to us in the system (and also the source of the bickering)

    The multiple attackers start at one person. Then two. Then three. Then four. Then five. They can all attack at once or separate. Its there call as its free form. If they grab you then they really grab you. If they punch they punch (though we do express control. A broken defender is no good to anyone.) When we punch we make sure that we can stop if we can tell the defender is about to be laid out....we don't use gloves or pads. I have seen people laid out. You must defend yourself.
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/31/2012 6:31pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fate112 View Post
    The multiple attackers start at one person. Then two. Then three. Then four. Then five. They can all attack at once or separate. Its there call as its free form. If they grab you then they really grab you. If they punch they punch (though we do express control. A broken defender is no good to anyone.) When we punch we make sure that we can stop if we can tell the defender is about to be laid out....we don't use gloves or pads. I have seen people laid out. You must defend yourself.
    Videos please, I've seen people "laid out" in point sparring.
  5. Fate112 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/31/2012 7:07pm


     Style: Hakko Denshin Ryu Jujutsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wish i had videos. The last ones i have are on vhs. I joined the army before digital cameras were the main stream. You can search YouTube though you ironically find most of our honbu waza....that we aren't supposed to post. Our variations are what we're supposed to be able to show freely but are the least posted.

    Hakko denshin and Hakko ryu forbid competition in sport martial arts so there is no point sparing.

    For what its worth as a combat solder in the us army i used this martial art to protect my own life in Iraq.

    Personally i find no humor or entertainment in hurting my partners. Hurting someone isn't always the best way to teach not to drop their guard. My ego doesn't need fluffing.
  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/31/2012 7:21pm

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     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Personally i find no humor or entertainment in hurting my partners. Hurting someone isn't always the best way to teach not to drop their guard. My ego doesn't need fluffing.
    When we punch we make sure that we can stop if we can tell the defender is about to be laid out....we don't use gloves or pads. I have seen people laid out. You must defend yourself.
    So, people get hurt in your classes as well.
    No, one said aliveness involves hurting people for "entertainment or humor." What argument are you trying to build here?
  7. Fate112 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/31/2012 7:50pm


     Style: Hakko Denshin Ryu Jujutsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Im not building an argument. It just seems more and more these days that an art isn't seen as effective unless there is a video of someone being hurt by it. Personally i find that kind of thinking offensive. In any sport people can be hurt. So yes people are hurt in our art. I was only speaking in the way i have to speak to most mma people in my town. They view traditional arts and ask to see proof that it can do damage. I apologise for thinking that's where your mind set was headed.
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/31/2012 8:46pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fate112 View Post
    Im not building an argument. It just seems more and more these days that an art isn't seen as effective unless there is a video of someone being hurt by it. Personally i find that kind of thinking offensive. In any sport people can be hurt. So yes people are hurt in our art. I was only speaking in the way i have to speak to most mma people in my town. They view traditional arts and ask to see proof that it can do damage. I apologise for thinking that's where your mind set was headed.
    Yes, that's the argument I thought you were building. Sorry I didn't stop you before you posted the very old and unoriginal MMA(sport) vs. Traditional Argument. Or the proof of damage vs proof of effectiveness.

    Proving effectiveness can be done without injury. You might want to check your bias before educating others.
  9. Fate112 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/31/2012 9:20pm


     Style: Hakko Denshin Ryu Jujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It has nothing to do with originality. That is simply the case as I have experienced it. An if there weren't some truth to it then it would be more original and not so widely used. I find it slightly insulting that you would think I would make a statement for the share fact of making one based on nothing more then "well It sounds good. Point made."

    It is an age old argument between many martial arts. Whose is more effective? Is your kung fu strong? I've trained with the mma schools here in my town. I have trained with the traditional arts here in my town. Its not the arts that have ego or demand proof...its the people. There is a great deal of ego in martial arts. On both sides. I choose not to surround myself with that kind of company. Hakko Denshin isn't the ultimate martial art. BJJ isn't the ultimate martial art. Kung fu isn't the ultimate art. Karate isn't the ultimate art. There is not an ultimate art. Its the individual student who must achieve perfection in his or her craft. Nothing I have said is "original" I came to ask simply would you consider my art "alive" I feel it is. I've used it outside the dojo to defend myself. I've used it in war. For me it is very much "alive".

    I might be bias and in favor of my style of jujutsu but for anyone to say that there not proud of there art and hold it to heart...is dishonest or if its the truth they need to find what they can hold to heart.
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/31/2012 9:31pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fate112 View Post
    It has nothing to do with originality. That is simply the case as I have experienced it. An if there weren't some truth to it then it would be more original and not so widely used. I find it slightly insulting that you would think I would make a statement for the share fact of making one based on nothing more then "well It sounds good. Point made."

    It is an age old argument between many martial arts. Whose is more effective? Is your kung fu strong? I've trained with the mma schools here in my town. I have trained with the traditional arts here in my town. Its not the arts that have ego or demand proof...its the people. There is a great deal of ego in martial arts. On both sides. I choose not to surround myself with that kind of company. Hakko Denshin isn't the ultimate martial art. BJJ isn't the ultimate martial art. Kung fu isn't the ultimate art. Karate isn't the ultimate art. There is not an ultimate art. Its the individual student who must achieve perfection in his or her craft. Nothing I have said is "original" I came to ask simply would you consider my art "alive" I feel it is. I've used it outside the dojo to defend myself. I've used it in war. For me it is very much "alive".

    I might be bias and in favor of my style of jujutsu but for anyone to say that there not proud of there art and hold it to heart...is dishonest or if its the truth they need to find what they can hold to heart.
    I find it insulting that you cover your current rant with the "I was just asking a question."

    Is what you described aliveness? Nope. Does using it to keep in the real world mean your training is alive? Nope.

    There, two people have answered your multifaceted single question.
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