Thread: Another Black shot...
4/01/2012 11:48am, #51
That is not my position.
The whole issue of Pan-European human rights emerged out of an attempt by British legal types to extend British values into Europe to help prevent a repeat of the events of WWII.
However, that initial purprose has been corrupted.
The traditional Anglo-Saxon view of liberty is that individuals convey power upwards to the state. So individuals grant the state the rights to certain areas it may operate in. The European socialist model is that the state conveys power downwards. The State grants individuals rights to do certain things.
This can be seen clearly by an analysis of the American bill of rights, which is born out of the Anglo Saxon tradition of individuals granting the state powers. To the ECHR where the European socialist model is applied and power is granted by the state to individuals.
Let's take free speech, surely one of the most fundamental rights.
US Bill of Rights:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Everyone has the right to freedom of expression....
The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.
It explicitly says that the government will have the right to make whatever laws it please restricting what you can say, where you can assemble and what you can believe.
This European socialist model of rights is one where the state grants rights to individuals with conditions.
There can be nothing further from the concept of liberty than that.
I don't think that supporting a concept of human rights, which says that your most basic human rights can be curtailed and restricted at whim by a state is logical.
True liberty is when the the people tell the government what it can't do. Not when the government tells the people what they can do.
Anybody living in Europe who really values liberty should fight to have the EHRA ripped into pieces and a real bill of rights put in its place.
4/01/2012 1:27pm, #52
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
^ under this definition, I understand and agree with you. I just wouldnīt call that phenomenon "socialism", since it leads to confusion with economic paradigms (e.g. as antithesis to capitalism) and other aspects. Also many schools of thought in socialism (those before Lenin) agree totally on the down-up approach you propagate.
Maybe "government-centered" or (partly) "totalitarism" would be a more fitting term.
But then, itīs only semantics.
Last edited by nils; 4/01/2012 1:38pm at .
4/01/2012 4:24pm, #53
I think its very dangerous and sad that more continental Europeans aren't really aware of how the institutions and structures that they think ensure their liberty actually infringe it and make them less free.
Subsuming political control from your national government to the supra-national EU government and institutions won't make you safer and it wont make you freer.
As a German you'll be acutely aware of how the EU's corporatism is negatively affecting you, because your money is being used to bail out and prop up very wealth southern European bankers.
Profits are privatised, but losses are socialised.
And your fellow Europeans are suffering as a result of this corporatism. The Greek people are being punished by the EU's policies that sets the EU project on a higher level then their economic chances. Vicious externally imposed austerity measures are destroying the lives of ordinary Greeks, especially young people.
Austerity only works when you can de-couple, default and devalue.
Greece can currently not default, not devalue, because it is being told it can't de-couple.
No decent person could support a political project that kills Greek pensioners through starvation and hypothermia purely for the sake of a pan-European fantasy and which makes the poor pay to prop up the rich.
More continental Europeans, especially Germans, need to understand that the EU is the problem, not the solution and whilst the Euro hurts Germans, it will kill Greeks.
No liberal minded person should support such venal corporatism for the sake of politicians keeping their snouts in the trough.
4/01/2012 6:24pm, #54
I believe that those in a position of authority should be held to the exact same level of behaviour that they are employed to enforce (i.e. the standard set for the rest of society). If that standard is lacking then it should be lifted universally, not just for those in charge.
If you have a tiered hierarchy of personal and social responsibility then what's preventing that system from ending up in a place where the gap in expectations elevates those in positions of authority to a point of accountability where they need to conduct themselves in a robotic or even superhuman way in order to simply meet that standard. Similarly, in that same system those that wish to usurp the standards have the expectations on their own level of behaviour nullified (or at least diminished) by the mere presence of someone in a position of authority (who is far more accountable for the outcome due to the higher level of expectation).
Dum spiro, spero.
Tada gan iarracht.
4/01/2012 7:15pm, #55
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
@judoka_uk (In spoiler since quite off-topic):
Last edited by nils; 4/01/2012 7:20pm at .
4/03/2012 1:44pm, #56
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Lake Placid, FL
4/03/2012 2:38pm, #57
Black Armed 680.791666667 95.8333333333%
White Armed 638.8 100.0%
Black Unarmed 774.090909091 95.4545454545%
White Unarmed 732.318181818 95.4545454545%
That was fun. I got shot by a black guy, and I took too long on another one with a cell phone; I shot two unarmed white guys.
4/03/2012 3:15pm, #58
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Lafayette, IN
4/03/2012 3:38pm, #59
4/03/2012 6:25pm, #60
I think that the author of that blurbs main point is that (regarless of the underlying reasons) even trying to address race and crime statistics is almost impossible to do without touching the third rail of political correctness.