Thread: Why no boxing/MT lineage wars?
4/04/2014 7:01pm, #1
Why no boxing/MT lineage wars?
I don't follow contact sports very closely. But how come we don't commonly hear about lineage disputes in arts like boxing and muay thai?
I've heard there are different approaches to boxing like counter punchers, brawlers,inside and outside fighters. I assume there are different approaches to muayy thai as well. I use these arts as examples because to my knowledge we don't commonly hear delineations between schools or styles. They all are simply boxing or muay thai.
Are there significant differences between schools? Are there different styles and lineages just like every other art? Obviously there are lineages of instructors to propagate the art but are there schools who differentiate from other schools in method?
In the world of FMA and many other systems for example there are strong divisions between systems and in some cases within systems. There are schools of thought that are firm believers that their method is superior to other approaches, I admit I've been guilty of this at times. There are students of one system who combine their knowledge with other systems and change the name of what they teach and create their own synthesis. Does this happen in the aforementioned arts?
Perhaps it is impossible to compare boxing, muay thai or any martial sport to a more loosely defined art. I suppose if boxing were modified enough it wouldn't fit the ring rule set. So perhaps the sportive rule sets prevent the art from being perverted into anything less effective. What are your thoughts guys? I figured this is the right forum to discuss this topic anywhere else and we'd get the sport vs. street debate. I'm trying to avoid this.
4/04/2014 7:43pm, #2
- Join Date
- Apr 2014
- big slappy hand fu
Perhaps because its a competitive sport its not the technique that makes the art, but the fighter behind it.
4/04/2014 7:48pm, #3
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
- Calgary, Alberta
I don't know much about FMA but the reason why I don't think this happens much in Boxing or MT is because of the structure of their competitive scenes. Boxing gyms can have many different flavours of boxing within them because much of a successful boxing career comes from learning how to fight these different boxing paradigms. Outside jab heavy fighters won't know how to deal well with aggressive inside fighters unless the spar with them regularly and vice versa.
The competitive scene itself takes a lot of the natural politics of boxing out of the gym as well. Gyms don't hold a lot of competitive power dynamics between them outside of actual professional or amateur fights because anything less is blowing bullshit and smoke and its easy for people to look up a gym's record for producing successful fighters and then fact-checking becomes easy. There is probably just as much bickering and dealing in Boxing/MT as any other MA but the way that the sport is structured removes power dynamics like those from the gym or teaching level.
4/04/2014 8:08pm, #4
That. Basically, the only thing that matters is your ability to kick ass, and train other people to kick ass. Everything else is secondary. I don't think there is too much politics is Judo either, once again because of it's competition focus. I suspect BJJ has more because of the Gracies, the BJJ/GJJ divide, and all the bullshit that leads too. It's in the less competition focused and more bullshido focused arts like kenpo, aikido, and the chun where everyone would rather argue about whoever has the "real" skills than actually jump in the cage, ring, or mat and brawl it out.
4/04/2014 9:42pm, #5
Well when you compete, their is no need to argue about who has the "real".
4/04/2014 9:52pm, #6
I suspected as much, the competition is healthy and humbling for arts and schools. A lot of noncompetitive schools chalk friendly competition as macho, chest puffing, it seems their arts suffer as a result. Interesting P Marsh about gyms training fighters in a variety of styles.
4/04/2014 10:08pm, #7
Many gyms are also trying for a reputation of professionalism. And that means you don't **** talk other gyms.Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
4/05/2014 1:43am, #8
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
- Muay Thai/Wrestling
4/05/2014 9:24am, #9
I'd say it as more to do with the age of the styles than with the competitive aspect. Both boxing and MT are very old styles, with boxing predating the birth of Jesus and having survived in some form throughout the ages across Europe. MT is also hundreds of years old, both as a fighting style and a combat sport.
It is therefore entirely possible that these styles of fighting had their lineage wars sorted out ages ago and evolved into the more or less unified styles we know today.
4/05/2014 12:40pm, #10
Also, some cultures place a very higher priority on matters of lineage than others; it's intimately bound up with family status, loyalties and politics, local pride, respect for ancestors and so-on.Check out the Bullshido.net Western Martial Arts Forum for all things Western, martial and arty.
Bartitsu: the Gentlemanly Art of Self Defence (est. 1899)