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  1. #221
    Chili Pepper's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RWaggs View Post
    I was thinking that too. However, sometimes it takes multiple little pieces of the full message to free someone from the BS. Maybe they don't convert this time, but the seed has been sewn.
    That's my thinking too. I guess occasionally someone gets beat and suddenly realizes "holy ****, I've been wrong all this time!" but the overwhelming majority of times it's exposure to something that goes radically against their beliefs, that gets worked on in the back of their minds.

  2. #222

    Join Date
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    Hi Sifu,

    My name is Vinny and I use to train in traditional wc kung fu with Master Victor Parlati. He was trained under one of the students of Grandmaster William Cheung. I know you are a master but I have to disagree with you on this one. Wing chun(traditonal, I don't know about modified) is a complete style and includes locks, throws, sweeps and even defence on the ground. If you don't believe me, go to Grandmaster Cheung's website and you will see him defend himself on the ground. You can even type in "wing chun vs juijitsu" on youtube and you will see a wing chun practitioner going up against a bjj guy and handling himself very well on the ground. But here's the question to you: Would you like to roll around on the hard cement?? I sure as hell wouldn't! That's why we train to avoid(if possible) this scenario. That's what Chi Sau is for. That's what Chi Gerk (Sticky legs) is for. It allows you to sense your opponent's next move and counter it without even having to look at him, which leaves you free for attack. Now i have said this before in other blogs, but the problem with most wing chun schools are they only go against other wing chun opponents and not against schools of other styles. If a wing chun practitioner is schooled properly and has a good teacher who not only knows the complete style but (AND THIS IS IMPORTANT!) knows how to explain the technique and its subsequent use properly(and many DON'T, unfortunately)in a self-defence situation, then a wing chun practitioner can take on any style, any time any where. Check this out. Go to you tube and type in "wing chun vs capiero" and then watch the video. The capiero guys does some flips and kicks and then gets his ass knocked out IN ONE PUNCH by the wing chun guy. This is what I mean by the right type of training. It is crucial and if not done properly, can put the wc practitioner in a very dangerous situation, making him over confident when he really can't handle the situation. To me, wing chun is the best style because you can use the principle of wing chun in any situation (principle vs technique) as long as the technique is polished and the practitioner has had enough training to allow him to react to any situation. Thanks for your time. Let me know what you think.
    Vinny

  3. #223

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    FormerShotokan,Kickboxing
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ^you remind me of a friend who always told me that christianity is the best and only true religion. So I ask you the same question I asked him over and over again:
    - did you try any other?
    - did you - personally - ever had any firsthand-experience that really proofs that this is true?

    If you have to answer any of those questions with 'no', then I cannot accept your belief (and trust me, it is a belief).

    P.S.: Welcome to the Forum! You may want to use the search-funtion to look for other threads in which those points you brought up were discussed over and over and over again.
    Last edited by nils; 4/07/2012 8:15pm at .

  4. #224

    Join Date
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    traditonal wing chun
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Thank you for the welcome. Yes I have..

    Yes I have, Nil. I have tried Shaolin, Tai Chi, and even the modified style of wing chun with Grandmaster Moy Yat. Thank you for the welcome. This seems to be a hot subject and should be very interesting.

  5. #225

    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by wingchun guy View Post
    Hi Sifu,

    My name is Vinny and I use to train in traditional wc kung fu with Master Victor Parlati. He was trained under one of the students of Grandmaster William Cheung. I know you are a master but I have to disagree with you on this one. Wing chun(traditonal, I don't know about modified) is a complete style and includes locks, throws, sweeps and even defence on the ground. If you don't believe me, go to Grandmaster Cheung's website and you will see him defend himself on the ground. You can even type in "wing chun vs juijitsu" on youtube and you will see a wing chun practitioner going up against a bjj guy and handling himself very well on the ground. But here's the question to you: Would you like to roll around on the hard cement?? I sure as hell wouldn't! That's why we train to avoid(if possible) this scenario. That's what Chi Sau is for. That's what Chi Gerk (Sticky legs) is for. It allows you to sense your opponent's next move and counter it without even having to look at him, which leaves you free for attack. Now i have said this before in other blogs, but the problem with most wing chun schools are they only go against other wing chun opponents and not against schools of other styles. If a wing chun practitioner is schooled properly and has a good teacher who not only knows the complete style but (AND THIS IS IMPORTANT!) knows how to explain the technique and its subsequent use properly(and many DON'T, unfortunately)in a self-defence situation, then a wing chun practitioner can take on any style, any time any where. Check this out. Go to you tube and type in "wing chun vs capiero" and then watch the video. The capiero guys does some flips and kicks and then gets his ass knocked out IN ONE PUNCH by the wing chun guy. This is what I mean by the right type of training. It is crucial and if not done properly, can put the wc practitioner in a very dangerous situation, making him over confident when he really can't handle the situation. To me, wing chun is the best style because you can use the principle of wing chun in any situation (principle vs technique) as long as the technique is polished and the practitioner has had enough training to allow him to react to any situation. Thanks for your time. Let me know what you think.
    Vinny
    So the Wing Chun guy that was talking **** in my wrestling room the other night before quite literally being thrown out didn't have the REALchun? His technique didn't stop my hip toss...or my gator roll choke... in fact, this chunner was the only person I've ever seen tap out due to being stacked.

    How does your chun deal with

    a.) head and arm throw
    b.) Muay thai clinch, and/or single collar tie
    c.) being mounted and punched in the face before someone goes for a straight armbar or an Americana lock
    ???

    PS Its spelled Capoeira not capiera.

  6. #226

    Join Date
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    • Impenetrable wall of text
    • Wing Chun is the ultimate martial art!
    • Wing Chun has groundwork
    • Don’t go to the ground!” fallacy
    • “Most Wing Chun sucks, but MY master has t3h r34l Chun”

    Oh, all the signs and symptoms are there…but of what? The problem is that where Wing Chun meets the Internet, it is very hard to tell the trolls from the earnestly deluded.

    It’s rather akin to Poe’s Law. I propose the Foom Law:

    Without a known history of trolling or other blatant display of insincerity, it is impossible to create a troll job of a Wing Chun poster that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing.
    [ petterhaggholm.net | blog | essays ]
    [ self defence: general thoughts | bjj: “don’t go to the ground”? ]
    “The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data.”

  7. #227

    Join Date
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    PMA, CLF, Longfist n more
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchun guy View Post
    Wing chun(traditonal, I don't know about modified) is a complete style and includes locks, throws, sweeps and even defence on the ground.
    Wrong. It is far from complete. Many styles are far from complete. This is where the idea of crosstraining comes in to the discussion. Bruce Lee first did traditional Wing Chun, but then branched out in search of a more complete understanding of ___. That brings JKD into the discussion, and I'm not opening that door for a style vs philosophy debate.

    But here's the question to you: Would you like to roll around on the hard cement?? I sure as hell wouldn't! That's why we train to avoid(if possible) this scenario. That's what Chi Sau is for. That's what Chi Gerk (Sticky legs) is for. It allows you to sense your opponent's next move and counter it without even having to look at him, which leaves you free for attack.
    Not necessarily true. Is chi sau used to train "sensitivity" and "perception" to attacks? Yes. Does chi sau build energy in the sense of geting your blood flowing? Yes. Is it also a drill that, when done properly, engrains physiological appropriate reactions, not strict to Wing Chun, but to any style that incorporates a (stereotypical) defensive maneuver in response to another's actions? Yes. IMO, chi sau is little more than 2-person version of wall kicks.

    the problem with most wing chun schools are they only go against other wing chun opponents and not against schools of other styles. If a wing chun practitioner is schooled properly and has a good teacher who not only knows the complete style
    The problem is that most Wing Chun schools/guys seem to lack respect for other styles, and subsequently get demolished by said styles when challenged. Also, Last I checked, Ip Man was the last "teacher" who had real knowledge of the "complete style".

    a wing chun practitioner can take on any style, any time any where.
    False. I tried my Chun at a very good school I began to attend not too long ago. Against a person with roughly the same amount of experience in his arts (Choy Lay Fut/Longfist) as I had with the Chun (and Kempo, Kali). Who conveniently formerly trained Wing Chun at the very same school I currently learn from (and did not use the Chun while sparring). Who is roughly the same size as me (he is about 10-15 lbs heavier). Who destroyed me then, and whom I compete with now. Is he a better fighter than me (he is 1-1 and I'm 0-0) or is it just the art? I'm gonna say that its the Chun sucking it in the majority of situations. Do I still try a roll punch and shin kicks every now and then? Yes, but always with a sense of 'I'm just screwing around at this point.'

    Check this out. Go to you tube and type in "wing chun vs capiero" and then watch the video. The capiero guys does some flips and kicks and then gets his ass knocked out IN ONE PUNCH by the wing chun guy.
    You do realize that this particular fight scene is from Never Back Down... right? Not to mention, its spelled Capoiera. Or am I getting the impression that your essay is an elaborate troll job that I fell for?

    *edit* I believe that I am now a prime example of the Foom Law, as per Petter's post.

    you can use the principle of wing chun in any situation
    Not really. You can use the philosophical principles of all martial arts in any situation.
    Last edited by Kung-fu Jesus; 4/07/2012 10:31pm at .

  8. #228
    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it Join us... or die
    Goju - Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wingchun guy View Post
    Hi Sifu,

    My name is Vinny and I use to train in traditional wc kung fu with Master Victor Parlati.
    OMFG!!!

    That's hillarious

  9. #229
    bobyclumsyninja's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchun guy View Post
    Hi Sifu, followed by an impenetrable wall of text
    Without a known history of trolling or other blatant display of insincerity, it is impossible to create a troll job of a Wing Chun poster that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing.

    Yeah, that matches Petters "law".

    How about:

    "It is literally impossible to create or manifest a caricature parody of chunnery, that exceeds in ridiculousness, or is immediately distinguishable from actual chunnery logic in practice".

  10. #230

    Join Date
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchun guy View Post
    The capiero guys does some flips and kicks and then gets his ass knocked out IN ONE PUNCH by the wing chun guy. This is what I mean by the right type of training.
    you did not just argue Chun is the ultimate one punch weapon.

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