Open carry and appropriateness

**slamdunc** · Posted On: 7/04/2012 7:31pm

Originally Posted by el dangeroso

I guess alot of that depends on the gun culture where one lives. I have never had anything more than a cursory glance at my gun when I open carry, and others that I know that I know that have OCd have similar reactions.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen, because logic would dictate that it does, but I have asked on several forums for someone to link me an article about the commonality of people getting jumped for their guns, and have yet to see anything other than antecdotes, and "well my uncle knew a guy..."

Most of the officers I have talked to said that tactically it doesn't make any difference because most robberies involve a violent ambush of the victim whether the perp believes them armed or not. The victim is usually sucker punched or shot or stabbed, then robbed. Maybe a good reason not to OC, but for that matter, maybe not a good idea to CC either.

It does depend greatly on the locale. A lot of states have open carry; it is within the law, and most importantly, it is accepted and encouraged by the public there. Some places where it is perfectly legal to open carry, the public neither understands, nor accepts the practice. I have been engaged in a forum war on O.com on this topic for about a week now. It is a source of entertainment, more than a debate.

I live in the People's Republic of Illinois--The Second Amendment may as well not be on the books here. There is no open carry, no concealed carry, an owner registration law, and lots of other restrictive crap that discourages gun ownership and forbids carry.

I am pro-gun, pro-Second Amendment; IMHO, everyone should carry and help to reduce the crime rate.

**dwkfym** · Posted On: 7/04/2012 9:25pm

Originally Posted by el dangeroso

I guess alot of that depends on the gun culture where one lives. I have never had anything more than a cursory glance at my gun when I open carry, and others that I know that I know that have OCd have similar reactions.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen, because logic would dictate that it does, but I have asked on several forums for someone to link me an article about the commonality of people getting jumped for their guns, and have yet to see anything other than antecdotes, and "well my uncle knew a guy..."

Maybe you are right on the locale thing (as I have not been in every single part of the country) but I am skeptical. A lot of pro-gun guys are delusional (I'm probably somewhat delusional too) about this kind of stuff. I lived in a pretty pro-gun very right wing town, and even now I live in a very pro-gun city. OC would not be completely accepted there, nor encouraged.

Most of the officers I have talked to said that tactically it doesn't make any difference because most robberies involve a violent ambush of the victim whether the perp believes them armed or not. The victim is usually sucker punched or shot or stabbed, then robbed. Maybe a good reason not to OC, but for that matter, maybe not a good idea to CC either.

I don't follow you. Assuming the policeman's remarks are true, good reason not to OC, and maybe CC won't help you as much as you may think but how is CC going to make it worse? Because your gun will get stolen? Is it gonna matter much when you're down and out already?

Also, on another subtopic; If more people CC'd I'd think it would be much better of a crime deterrant than OC for the general public. If 5 out of 10 robberies you commit ended up with violent armed resistance, you'd think twice about committing a robbery. If most people OC'd instead of CC, your gamble pays off much better.

**Killbot** · Posted On: 7/05/2012 8:30am

Originally Posted by Tameshiwhaty?

Sorry this off topic but were you in the Town Center? Just curious.

No, I was at the Morgantown Mall. And I am completely caught off guard by this line of questioning. That's awfully specific knowledge of the area for being on the internets. lol

**dwkfym** · Posted On: 7/05/2012 9:38am

Originally Posted by dwkfym

I lived in a pretty pro-gun very right wing town, and even now I live in a very pro-gun city. OC would not be completely accepted there, nor encouraged.

I might add, at arguably the most pro-gun state in the country.

**Tameshiwhaty?** · Posted On: 7/05/2012 9:49am

Originally Posted by Killbot

No, I was at the Morgantown Mall. And I am completely caught off guard by this line of questioning. That's awfully specific knowledge of the area for being on the internets. lol

I"m from Charleston sorry to catch you off guard. lol

**el dangeroso** · Posted On: 7/06/2012 5:40am

Originally Posted by dwkfym

Maybe you are right on the locale thing (as I have not been in every single part of the country) but I am skeptical. A lot of pro-gun guys are delusional (I'm probably somewhat delusional too) about this kind of stuff. I lived in a pretty pro-gun very right wing town, and even now I live in a very pro-gun city. OC would not be completely accepted there, nor encouraged.

I don't follow you. Assuming the policeman's remarks are true, good reason not to OC, and maybe CC won't help you as much as you may think but how is CC going to make it worse? Because your gun will get stolen? Is it gonna matter much when you're down and out already?

Also, on another subtopic; If more people CC'd I'd think it would be much better of a crime deterrant than OC for the general public. If 5 out of 10 robberies you commit ended up with violent armed resistance, you'd think twice about committing a robbery. If most people OC'd instead of CC, your gamble pays off much better.

What I was trying to say is that if you are already down and out, OC or CC doesn't make much of a difference, you lose your gun either way. I would venture a guess that most of the experienced criminals know that alot of people conceal, so they would expect their potential victim to be armed, and would engineer their crime accordingly. If they did it really wouldn't matter either way because your gun would likely never enter the equation, as far as defense goes, and once you are down and no longer able to resist, it wouldn't matter if it was concealed, there is nothing stopping them from taking it.
I don't really OC by choice. I had my hand smashed almost a year ago and can't close my shooting hand (right hand) enough to make a fist. My thumb and index finger work fine and I can grab things using the rest of my fingers on that hand, so I can draw and shoot, just cant close my whole had all the way.. I just have trouble grabbing my shirt with that hand to clear it so I can grab the gun grip. I would rather not reach across with my left hand to pull up my shirt because I would rather have that hand free to punch, block, grab, guard or whatever else I need to do if someone is closing the distance on me. Doesn't seem to be a good idea to potentially have both of my hands trapped on one side.
If I have been coming across as an OC activist, that isn't my intention. This is just a topic I like to discuss.

**dwkfym** · Posted On: 7/06/2012 12:30pm

no no no, I appreciate teh discussion.
I don't think its true that most criminals assume you are armed. I think that is the whole point of concealed carry. It'd serve as a deterrant. Criminals like all of us, do a risk/benefit analysis. If everyone started carrying, it'd weed out all but the most hardcore / skilled / stupid / crazy criminals.

**BadUglyMagic** · Posted On: 7/06/2012 9:27pm

[QUOTE=el dangeroso;2702290 I would venture a guess that most of the experienced criminals know that alot of people conceal, so they would expect their potential victim to be armed, and would engineer their crime accordingly. If they did it really wouldn't matter either way because your gun would likely never enter the equation, as far as defense goes, and once you are down and no longer able to resist, it wouldn't matter if it was concealed, there is nothing stopping them from taking it[/QUOTE]

Why would you venture to guess that way?

Do you have any statistics to support the conjecture "that it wouldn't matter anyway"?

**Gezere** · Posted On: 7/09/2012 3:44am

Originally Posted by el dangeroso

What I was trying to say is that if you are already down and out, OC or CC doesn't make much of a difference, you lose your gun either way. I would venture a guess that most of the experienced criminals know that alot of people conceal, so they would expect their potential victim to be armed, and would engineer their crime accordingly. If they did it really wouldn't matter either way because your gun would likely never enter the equation, as far as defense goes, and once you are down and no longer able to resist, it wouldn't matter if it was concealed, there is nothing stopping them from taking it.
I don't really OC by choice. I had my hand smashed almost a year ago and can't close my shooting hand (right hand) enough to make a fist. My thumb and index finger work fine and I can grab things using the rest of my fingers on that hand, so I can draw and shoot, just cant close my whole had all the way.. I just have trouble grabbing my shirt with that hand to clear it so I can grab the gun grip. I would rather not reach across with my left hand to pull up my shirt because I would rather have that hand free to punch, block, grab, guard or whatever else I need to do if someone is closing the distance on me. Doesn't seem to be a good idea to potentially have both of my hands trapped on one side.
If I have been coming across as an OC activist, that isn't my intention. This is just a topic I like to discuss.

I would have to disagree. Most criminals are going for a soft target. If they think you are armed or will put of a fight they tend to give you a pass. If they still take action against you it is because they think they can take you or intimidate you into complying with what they want.