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  1. Plasma is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/19/2012 9:00pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: 柔術

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by shotfghter View Post
    Is this still true?

    Hatsumi still hasn't verified his scrolls? I'm sure you guys followed the discussion on Hatsumi on YouTube, where Anthony Cummings, Buffon Sarotobi/ Buffon Masa, and others questioned Hatsumi's lineage. They all seem to have retracted their videos, and no is questioning Hatsumi anymore. Why did everyone stop? Has there been some big news on the Bujinkans history?
    Now that the ninja craze is over I don't think anyone cares anymore. Let the ninjas have their LaRP.
  2. Styygens is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/20/2012 3:51pm


     Style: BBT/BJJ/CJKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by shotfghter View Post
    Is this still true?

    Hatsumi still hasn't verified his scrolls? I'm sure you guys followed the discussion on Hatsumi on YouTube, where Anthony Cummings, Buffon Sarotobi/ Buffon Masa, and others questioned Hatsumi's lineage. They all seem to have retracted their videos, and no is questioning Hatsumi anymore. Why did everyone stop? Has there been some big news on the Bujinkans history?
    Wait. Cummings retracted his views?

    Just to satisfy my curiousity, is there a link for the retraction? I paid attention to the "rise" of Cummings and his crappy book shilling. But after I dismissed him as a serious attempt to shed light on this corner of history, I quit paying attention to him. If he's backtracked or changed his story, I'm at least mildly interested in it.
  3. Eladar is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2012 5:33pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Bujinkan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Styygens View Post
    Wait. Cummings retracted his views?

    Just to satisfy my curiousity, is there a link for the retraction? I paid attention to the "rise" of Cummings and his crappy book shilling. But after I dismissed him as a serious attempt to shed light on this corner of history, I quit paying attention to him. If he's backtracked or changed his story, I'm at least mildly interested in it.
    Indeed he did. All of his videos against the Bujinkan were removed, and he put up another video.

    Due to not having posted enough, I can't link you, but if you do a quick youtube search for "Antony Cummings Bujinkan" it's about 4 links down on my screen, and the video is titled "Great news for all Bujinkan students"
  4. Styygens is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/20/2012 7:46pm


     Style: BBT/BJJ/CJKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladar View Post
    Indeed he did. All of his videos against the Bujinkan were removed, and he put up another video.

    Due to not having posted enough, I can't link you, but if you do a quick youtube search for "Antony Cummings Bujinkan" it's about 4 links down on my screen, and the video is titled "Great news for all Bujinkan students"
    13 Minutes? That gives him a heck of a chance to download a virus into my computer...

    Here goes!
  5. Styygens is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/20/2012 8:01pm


     Style: BBT/BJJ/CJKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I dunno...

    Everytime I hear them say they want to reach out to the X-Kans and the potential for sharing, all I hear is: "Buy our books, and the potential for us to make money improves!"

    I'm not sure there's any smoking gun, but here's the video:
  6. shotfghter is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2012 2:55am


     Style: Street Focus Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Styygens View Post
    Wait. Cummings retracted his views?

    Just to satisfy my curiousity, is there a link for the retraction? I paid attention to the "rise" of Cummings and his crappy book shilling. But after I dismissed him as a serious attempt to shed light on this corner of history, I quit paying attention to him. If he's backtracked or changed his story, I'm at least mildly interested in it.
    That's not the thing though, EVERYONE retracted their views. Buffon Sarotobi/Masa is focusing on Koreans stealing Japanese culture now, and anyone else linked to Anthony backed off.

    I like Anthony, even though he allied himself with the Budo Ryu (Mrs. Jacobson), and Chosun Ninja. I like them too, but it's obvious they are not real ninja practitioners in his view of things. Phil Elmore also stopped going after ninjas. His view is that all the ninjas should get together "Ichigun Igumi" something like that. It's a good idea I think, but the Bujinkan are such snobs lol.

    I spoke to Anthony about his alliance with Chris Jacobson. She has yet to provide evidence (Her Densho? I don't know), but if Hatsumi isn't showing his, what does it matter? If no one is showing where they came from but claiming Sokeship, why make enemies? I agree with him.

    This was a heated debate at MAP, where a moderator is clearly part of the Booj, and grills anyone who criticizes them.

    I'm not satisfied! lol, have the Bujinkan shown evidence? Are the bujinkan just going to get away? Searching online makes my head spin, all there is are 30-40 year old men being extremely idiototic, and younger guys reasoning for Hatsumi or showing no evidence. It's like he says in his videos. Scottbaioisdead pretty much says "I saw the scrolls, you can too, so go to hell"

    What's the truth? (I HATE Steven Nojiri-idiot lol. Guy thinks he's big stuff.)
    Last edited by shotfghter; 3/21/2012 3:01am at .
  7. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2012 11:13am

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So a bunch of people stopped spending their free time questioning a ninjutsu lineage. How long are they supposed to continue questioning the guy before they decide that there's better uses of their time?
  8. BJMills is online now

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2012 1:48pm


     Style: Muay Thai/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by shotfghter View Post
    That's not the thing though, EVERYONE retracted their views. Buffon Sarotobi/Masa is focusing on Koreans stealing Japanese culture now, and anyone else linked to Anthony backed off.

    I like Anthony, even though he allied himself with the Budo Ryu (Mrs. Jacobson), and Chosun Ninja. I like them too, but it's obvious they are not real ninja practitioners in his view of things. Phil Elmore also stopped going after ninjas. His view is that all the ninjas should get together "Ichigun Igumi" something like that. It's a good idea I think, but the Bujinkan are such snobs lol.

    I spoke to Anthony about his alliance with Chris Jacobson. She has yet to provide evidence (Her Densho? I don't know), but if Hatsumi isn't showing his, what does it matter? If no one is showing where they came from but claiming Sokeship, why make enemies? I agree with him.

    This was a heated debate at MAP, where a moderator is clearly part of the Booj, and grills anyone who criticizes them.

    I'm not satisfied! lol, have the Bujinkan shown evidence? Are the bujinkan just going to get away? Searching online makes my head spin, all there is are 30-40 year old men being extremely idiototic, and younger guys reasoning for Hatsumi or showing no evidence. It's like he says in his videos. Scottbaioisdead pretty much says "I saw the scrolls, you can too, so go to hell"

    What's the truth? (I HATE Steven Nojiri-idiot lol. Guy thinks he's big stuff.)
    I have a question, and honestly, I'm not trying to be trite. Why do you care?

    I don't practice ninjutsu or even know anyone who does, so I don't have a dog in this fight. I just don't really understand why anyone cares about a bunch of scrolls.

    Either a martial art is effective or it isn't, outside of that what difference does it make?

    EDIT: I understand there are some people who practice Koryu martial arts for the sake of preserving them, so that might be a legitimate reason to care. But outside of a few dedicated cultural places in Japan I don't think anything is 100% koryu anymore anyway.
    Last edited by BJMills; 3/21/2012 1:53pm at .
  9. CrackFox is offline
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    You have to work the look.

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2012 2:15pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BJMills View Post
    I don't practice ninjutsu or even know anyone who does, so I don't have a dog in this fight. I just don't really understand why anyone cares about a bunch of scrolls.

    Either a martial art is effective or it isn't, outside of that what difference does it make?
    I don't care about martial arts being effective or not, I care about people making bullshit claims. (It just happens that "this art is effective" is the most common bullshit claim, but there are plenty that don't make the claim, and I have no problem with them.) Hatsumi has said he has some kind of magic scrolls that legitimize his style, so he should just show them and be done with it. If he won't do that, he shouldn't make any mention of them.
  10. Styygens is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/21/2012 2:28pm


     Style: BBT/BJJ/CJKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by shotfghter View Post
    That's not the thing though, EVERYONE retracted their views. Buffon Sarotobi/Masa is focusing on Koreans stealing Japanese culture now, and anyone else linked to Anthony backed off.

    I like Anthony, even though he allied himself with the Budo Ryu (Mrs. Jacobson), and Chosun Ninja. I like them too, but it's obvious they are not real ninja practitioners in his view of things. Phil Elmore also stopped going after ninjas. His view is that all the ninjas should get together "Ichigun Igumi" something like that. It's a good idea I think, but the Bujinkan are such snobs lol.

    I spoke to Anthony about his alliance with Chris Jacobson. She has yet to provide evidence (Her Densho? I don't know), but if Hatsumi isn't showing his, what does it matter? If no one is showing where they came from but claiming Sokeship, why make enemies? I agree with him.

    This was a heated debate at MAP, where a moderator is clearly part of the Booj, and grills anyone who criticizes them.

    I'm not satisfied! lol, have the Bujinkan shown evidence? Are the bujinkan just going to get away? Searching online makes my head spin, all there is are 30-40 year old men being extremely idiototic, and younger guys reasoning for Hatsumi or showing no evidence. It's like he says in his videos. Scottbaioisdead pretty much says "I saw the scrolls, you can too, so go to hell"

    What's the truth? (I HATE Steven Nojiri-idiot lol. Guy thinks he's big stuff.)
    I'm of a mind with Plasma and Permalost: Fatigue. Most people who care enough about this question and have the creds, info, and/or reason to care have settled into their trenches long ago. To some extent, this may also be cyclical and in another few years, we'll see a new round of arguing, crying, ranting, and whining about it.

    Now... Under what circumstances did you speak with Antony Cummings?
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