Battle of the Nations Team USA forming!

**captain zorikh** · Posted On: 11/08/2011 1:08am

It seems that someone in the good ol' U.S. of A. decided to put together a team to go compete in the Battle of the Nations. I know a few of them, all SCAdians. I don't know if the rest of them are, but from the chatter in the Facebook group, confidence is high!

http://www.usaknights.org/index.html
http://www.facebook.com/groups/115904041790980/

**captain zorikh** · Posted On: 11/26/2011 11:03am

SCA Today, an internet SCA newspaper, has gotten wind of the Battle of Nations Team USA effort.

http://www.scatoday.net/node/21687

I have signed up. Now I need to upgrade my armor. Training in BotN rules combat will begin soon. The rules are listed here...

http://www.battleofthenations.com.ua...enuItemID=1364

It seems that only knockdowns are kills, nothing else counts, so you can be bashed on the head all day and still be alive. But punching, kicking, and grappling are allowed. This is different from the SCA fighting I have done. I do BJJ currently, but have little training in punching and kicking.

Any advice from all you folks who do WMA as to what weapons for I should use and how I should train?

**DdlR** · Posted On: 11/28/2011 1:30am

From the one BoN video clip I've seen, it looks as if "takedowns" in the sense of tackles, power-shoves etc. are the order of the day. Frankly, it kind of reminds me of 19th century bare knuckle boxing, in that while it's ostensibly a striking sport, throwing seems to be the way to actually win a lot of the time. On that basis, and since punching to a steel helmet is basically of nuisance value, I'd train the hell out of half-swording leverage techniques combined with hip and leg throws.

Even with the relatively short swords that seem to be de rigueur in BoN competitions, keeping a half-sword grip would offer a big leverage advantage at extreme close range.

**captain zorikh** · Posted On: 11/30/2011 11:53am

Thanks. I'm thinking of going with a pole-arm, myself. I've had pretty good luck knocking people down with it in various ways at Pennsic.

I'm considering adding kickboxing to my training regimen to get more accustomed to the concept of punching and kicking. Maybe some football too?

**DdlR** · Posted On: 11/30/2011 12:07pm

IMO kickboxing would be largely a waste of time re. BoN competition; punches are legal, sure, but pointless unless you can reasonably expect to use them to help you win a match, and I can't see punching as a high percentage technique against opponents in steel armor and helmets, except maybe to add authority to a takedown. Kicking is generally a bad idea in a melee, especially one that allows double-teaming, tackling and grappling, and even worse given that you, yourself will be wearing armor (re. balance issues).

If "you're down, you're out" really is the guiding rule, then football + halfswording (again, emphasis on leverage takedowns and grappling) would be decent prep.

**Lanky279** · Posted On: 12/01/2011 8:39pm

Originally Posted by DdlR

Kicking is generally a bad idea in a melee, especially one that allows double-teaming, tackling and grappling, and even worse given that you, yourself will be wearing armor (re. balance issues).

I would disagree. For shields, smashing the back of the shield into their skull/helmets can leave them disoriented or even knocked out. A good shield kick can do wonders. Although I suspect that such a kick isn't allowed, you can still attempt to knock the enemy off balance by either delivering a powerful to one side of the shield to create an opening for a teammate or, better yet, just repeatedly thrust with your weapon at the edge of the shield at different spots. e.g. - thrust your spear at the upper right corner, than lower left corner, etc. to create an opening and make it easier for another player to shield bash them to the floor, although I don't know how the event organizers feel about shield bashing.

**DdlR** · Posted On: 12/01/2011 11:06pm

In a melee situation, especially when you might be blindsided and then grappled or tackled down at exactly the wrong moment, deliberately shifting your balance to a single point isn't good tactics.

**Lanky279** · Posted On: 12/02/2011 12:06am

Originally Posted by DdlR

In a melee situation, especially when you might be blindsided and then grappled or tackled down at exactly the wrong moment, deliberately shifting your balance to a single point isn't good tactics.

I don't get you mean by shifting your balance on one foot. If you mean when you kick the opponent's shield, if the shield is large enough, (a lot are), they'll have a difficult time anticipating kicks due to visibility problems and won't be able to rush in to stop them. Also, if you get tackled blindside, you're probably going to go down just due to the fact that you aren't prepared for it, regardless of your stance.

If you don't want to kick, you can always thrust your weapon but the rules said no thrusting and I don't know if you can get away with it on the shield only you can accidentally stab the opponent.

**DdlR** · Posted On: 12/02/2011 7:20am

I'm not disagreeing that a successful kick is a good thing, I'm pointing out that the chances of a kick being successful are diminished in an armored melee.

**Lanky279** · Posted On: 12/02/2011 3:31pm

Originally Posted by DdlR

I'm not disagreeing that a successful kick is a good thing, I'm pointing out that the chances of a kick being successful are diminished in an armored melee.

That kind of depends on what you want to accomplish. For me, a kick is meant to throw the opponent off balance, which includes kicking the shield. Armor would only make it easier to throw them off balance, I would think.