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  1. Listen Up is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/21/2012 9:28pm


     Style: Shaolin Do

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well...GM Sin is 67 years old, so I doubt if he will start professional fighting. His franchise isn't built on lies or fables any more than any art. He is an incredibly skilled Martial Artist, and teacher. Otherwise, he wouldn't have the success he's had.
    Pretty sure that 99.9% of martial artists are not professional fighters. No one on these threads have ever doubted his skills...so, not really getting that this is going anywhere.
  2. mike321 is online now

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2012 2:36am


     Style: kenpo, Wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost View Post
    So exactly what has The' accomplished, other than building a commercial franchise upon myths and now apparently, lies?

    Who has he fought to demonstrate "ability"?

    At the end of the day, this is all about fighting ability. Has Sin The ever beaten a legitimate challenger who sincerely wanted to kick his ass using, say, Judo? Kyokushin Karate? San SS? Muay Thai? Chinese Checkers?
    I have no knowledge of this instructor, and I agree that ability needs to be proven. But even if proof was provided I would still object to inaccurate history. This also applies to the arts that have proven effective multiple times. For example, I would not want wild stories about the origin of judo. The reality is much more interesting.
  3. Listen Up is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2012 9:00am


     Style: Shaolin Do

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How much is factual and how much is true...I don't really know. I can see that a lot of damage seems to stem more from the Soards and their affiliates. Should GM Sin embellish the origins of his art to make it marketable? No...he should have differentiated between stories and facts, in my opinion. Should Funakoshi have changed the symbols for Shotokan Karate to eliminate the Chinese origins? Probably not.
    Was there a GM Ie? Apparently...there are pictures posted of a trip to Bandung by GM Sin and students, with descendants from GM Ie's school. GM Sin also has no qualms about taking his students to China and participating in long demonstrations. You'd think he wouldn't do that if he were hiding something. Will the Americans ever be able to perform like the Wushu practitioners? Nope...not unless they have the same background and training. Kinda hard to do in the States, not impossible, but kids are more likely to receive football or basketball scholarships over martial arts.
    In all likelihood, GM Ie was an exceptional martial artist who travelled extensively to seek and train with other martial artists. Nothing wrong with that.
    Did he pass on his personal library to GM Sin? I believe he did. GM Sin was in US, and GM Ie perhaps saw an opportunity to continue his legacy. I know firsthand that he has a very large collection of hand written notes, journals, etc. I can't imagine what it would be like, at the age of 18, to travel halfway around the world to study engineering in a foreign country.
    Hmmm...18. Kinda young, eh? Really, really young.
    You are right about factual history sometimes being more interesting than the myths. I think that GM Sin's personal history alone is more amazing and awe-inspiring than any stories.
    Through it all, despite adversity, he remains the same, kind, mild-mannered, and filled with enthusiasm and a sense of wonder regarding the ancients and the legends.
    He is the youngest 67 year old I've ever encountered, and I love that about him. I aspire to be like that.
    Study whatever you want, believe whatever you want.
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2012 9:07am

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Listen Up View Post
    Study whatever you want, believe whatever you want.
    Yeah, must of hurt you to agree with me.

    As many of us say all of the time, enjoy what you do, but don't get butt-hurt when people call your stories lies when you talk a HUGE game.
    LOL. Diatribe go........now.......

    Full circle, believe what you want, train what you want, and get angry as much as you want, it doesn't change what was said in the document.
  5. Listen Up is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2012 9:17am


     Style: Shaolin Do

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fake...the funny part is, I agree with a fraction of what you said. As far as butt-hurt, (cute phrase you came up with, btw), read your own rants. There's some major symptoms for a large dose of Preparation H there, my friend.
    It's the wild conclusions I object to...or as you would say, the butt-hurt reactions.
    But, (pun intended), we are all entitled to our opinions, and you've seen mine, based upon my 37 years of association with GM Sin. He is an amazing teacher, and capable of amazing physical feats. He really doesn't need any embellishments...and truth be told, he doesn't need me defending him. To me he is like family. He still has feelings.
    So when you insult him, I take it personally. I have written answers from my viewpoint to counter yours.
  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2012 9:30am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Listen Up View Post
    Fake...the funny part is, I agree with a fraction of what you said. As far as butt-hurt, (cute phrase you came up with, btw), read your own rants. There's some major symptoms for a large dose of Preparation H there, my friend.
    It's the wild conclusions I object to...or as you would say, the butt-hurt reactions.
    But, (pun intended), we are all entitled to our opinions, and you've seen mine, based upon my 37 years of association with GM Sin. He is an amazing teacher, and capable of amazing physical feats. He really doesn't need any embellishments...and truth be told, he doesn't need me defending him. To me he is like family. He still has feelings.
    So when you insult him, I take it personally. I have written answers from my viewpoint to counter yours.
    Butt-hurt is an old meme that existed long before I ever used it. You started the insults this time and then carried baggage over from a three year old thread to say "raaaarrrgggg you meany Iif." Blah Blah Thanks for the newest rant. Again your personalizing the issue doesn't change anything in that document.
  7. Listen Up is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2012 9:41am


     Style: Shaolin Do

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've answered all your rants...point by point. You were extremely degrading on a personal level with your insults, so I responded. I could care less where the term "butt-hurt" came from. I don't waste my time on the Internet with this kind of trivial nonsense to know or care where it was first used. Well, once every three years or so I stumble across some crazy thread and can't help myself...it's just so stupid!
    Read your last response... You don't call that a rant? Really?
    Your feelings are hurt, you've admitted that. I'm sorry for what the Soards did to you...I truly am. I wish I could change what has happened to you...but here we are, three years later...and you are in the same place. I've offered to meet with you, invited you nicely to my home, then gotten angry at your bullshit. Suffice to say, you've got yours and I've got mine.
    Have fun on your crusade.
  8. Sam Browning is online now

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2012 10:47am

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Pointing out the obvious, if one reads the translated version of "Karate-Do: My Way of Life" by Gichin Funakoshi (I'm using the paperback version published by Kodansha International in 1981) Funakoshi who founded what others called Shotokan, (he did not like to use the term himself). wrote:

    "Inasmuch as there is virtually no written material on the early history of karate, we do not know who invented and developed it, nor even, for that matter, where it originated and evolved. Its earliest history may only be inferred from ancient legends that have been handed down to us by word of mouth, and they, like most legends, tend to be imaginative and probably inaccurate." (p.29)

    Funakoshi would also say that Karate had been influenced by Chinese boxing which was introduced to Okinawa (p. 31)but he NEVER claimed that his art decended from the Shaolin Temple.

    I really do shake my head when "Listen Up" attempts to claim here that Shotokan comes from the Shaolin Temple when the founder of Shotokan never made this claim. As a practicioner of Shotokan you should know better.

    I've heard one excuse after another from you why people should not care about Sin The's bullshito concerning the origins and background of his art, but the deposition makes it clear that he repeatedly told untruths or lies to make him and his art's historical pedegree look better, and he admits once, that a particular falsehood did make him look better to his students.

    I don't know what flavor Sin The' Koolaid comes in, but you've been probably been drinking too much of it.
  9. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2012 10:47am

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Listen Up View Post
    Well...GM Sin is 67 years old, so I doubt if he will start professional fighting. His franchise isn't built on lies or fables any more than any art. He is an incredibly skilled Martial Artist, and teacher. Otherwise, he wouldn't have the success he's had.
    Pretty sure that 99.9% of martial artists are not professional fighters. No one on these threads have ever doubted his skills...so, not really getting that this is going anywhere.
    The point of Martial Arts is Fighting.

    I don't care if he's 67. Who did he fight when he was 27? 37?

    Yes, he flat-out lied about the origin of Shaolin Do. Anyone with a brain could have figured that out from the fact that "Shaolin" is a Chinese word, and "Do" is Japanese. This proves he's a liar, and should not be trusted.

    However, he is teaching people how to fight. Either he knows how to fight, and has demonstrated this at some time, somewhere, or he doesn't, and all you Shaolin Do kool-aid drinkers are doing is learning some martial-looking dance moves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Listen Up
    He is an incredibly skilled Martial Artist, and teacher. Otherwise, he wouldn't have the success he's had.
    On what planet does that make any sense*? History is full of examples of people who know little to nothing about a particular subject, becoming "successful" simply by sheer ability to market, manipulate people, employ charisma, or flat-out lie. The Martial Arts world is chock-full of people who throw money and free time at someone who sells them an image of themselves they want to believe; that has no bearing on whether or not the person selling that image has any skills other than the ability to bullshit people.


    *Keep in mind, this is Planet Earth.
  10. Listen Up is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2012 11:03am


     Style: Shaolin Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Funakoshi studied Shorin Ryu...So named by Chosin Chibana in 1933 in honor of the Shaolin roots. Shorin is Shaolin in Japanese. So whether Funakoshi chose to admit it or not, or purposefully changed the characters to make it more marketable to the Japanese, who at the time, didn't really care for anything Chinese, the fact remains, Shotokan has Shaolin roots.
    Thought I explained that earlier...
    Yes, GM Sin admits to embellishing stories.
    Okleedoke.
    Does that make him worthless and all his students kook-aid drinkers....Therein comes the insult. It's your conclusions that are offensive. I don't care if he likes to tell stories. I've trained with him, and many others, and he's fantastic.
    Is Shotokan a bullshit art because Funakoshi altered its origins by omission? Don't think so...
    You guys have your own brand of kool-aid going on.
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