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3/05/2012 7:24pm -
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3/05/2012 7:26pm -
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Posted On:
3/05/2012 7:28pm -
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http://www.shaolin-do.com/history.php
""If your primary interest is tournament skills, I advise you to seek your training elsewhere! Most of what you will learn here is too lethal for tournament use. I teach the ancient system of Shaolin-Do, 'Art of survival, not of sport.' As did the immortals, we should learn to destroy so that we may preserve! It is a way of truth. The knowledge that I offer you is not an athletic training; it is a sacred trust."
Shaolin Grandmaster Sin Kwang Thé
From its inception, in the mid-sixties, Shaolin-Do has always claimed to have direct Shaolin lineage to the Fukien Temple. Allegedly, Su Kong Tai Djin was the last Shaolin Monk to learn every style of martial arts taught at the Fukien temple. Su Kong then passed his knowledge on to Grandmaster Ie Chang Ming, who was succeeded by Grand Master Sin Kwan The.
This is an innocuous blurb that can be found on many Shaolin-Do and Chinese Shaolin Centers school websites. The problem started when you add this quote and Sin The's claimed knowledge of over 900 individual kung fu Taolu/kata/forms.
With the new accessibility to the internet, the Shaolin-Do message gained a bigger audience and more extensive critiques. Many people called outright fraud based on the fact The' claimed knowledge of more than 900 forms. As students started defending the art on various online forums, The's stories of training with a master that melted a baby, chi projection and claims he stole forms from other arts began to become common place.
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/for...4&postcount=45
Sin The copyrighted his art, while originally calling it “Sin The Karate,” and that is where the controversy began. A large amount of the various critiques focused on his use of both Japanese and Chinese terms, while he claimed he was maintaining Chinese authenticity.But just for you, the actual story, told to me a long time ago and then in print was that when he was young, he studied a form of MA called "sand burn". They would strike their hands in to large pots filled with heated sand to toughen the skin and condition the hands. They would then soak their hands in some solution (similar to dit jow I am sure) that would gradually deaden the pain and feeling. The story goes that , and please pay attention to this part onyomi, HIS TEACHER, not him, had been training and without thinking , picked up his crying grandchild. Because his hands were still hot, he burned or scalded (not melted as the bullshido version goes) the child. The teacher was so upset that he stopped teaching and training and M. Sin then found and started training with M. Ie. That that is the CORRECT version of the story. Did it or could it happen that way? Who knows. While personally find it hard to believe that the hands and skin could be conditioned to hold that much heat, that doesn't mean it couldn't be done. Look at iron shin and bone training. Without it, you slam shin to shin, you cry. With it, you don't even notice.
http://www.karateforums.com/informat...o-vt33692.html
I'll say it again...
Kata is for karate - FORM is the name the chinese use(Yes, the meanings are the same)
Also, why use karate uniforms, if you are practising kung fu?? historically it can be excused, but formally it is frowned upon.
3rd, no one, and I mean NO ONE can master ALL the forms in Kung Fu. Besides, it would be pointless, you learn the form, to develop your own form afterwards, your own unique movement.
4th, Baguazhang is not shaolin, Taichi is not shaolin, Hsing I is not shaolin.... Shaolin is Buddhist - Taichi, bagua and xing yi are taoist arts....
If you can in fact use the material you have learned, I congratulate you in your training, but know that its a mix of styles and not original material directly descendant of the Shaolin Temple, you can do research on your own to verify this.http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/u...&Number=164227Robert, you think having 900 forms is a good thing???
I studied SD many years ago before I came to my senses and started studying from someone else. I can tell you that the self defenses that SD teaches are iffy at best. I would not use half of them that they teach in a real life situation. SD claims to teach kung fu but the movements of thier "kata" look like kempo or some type of karate. The "kata" are to rigid and do not "flow" like a chinese form. Besides that they use Japanese terms such as dojo and kata and sensei. And yes I know their reasons for all of this but I just don't buy into it. By the way, I studied directly under Grandmaster Sin The' at The Sin The' Sports Center in Lexington, Kentucky.
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=32782The reason that so many people call it shaolin DO is because when grandmaster Sin The' came to the US he brought the teachings and TRADITIONS of his teacher, Ie Chang Ming, with him. Ie Chang Ming taught shaolin kung fu in indonesia where chinese martial arts were illegal. In order to continue teaching he adopted the japanese uniform, belt ranking system, and added DO to the end. This was the chinese art could still be practiced and anyone looking wouldn't catch on. Sin The', out of respect for his teacher, merely carried on this tradition within his school.
I thought that the training was very non-gung fu...it looked more like shotokan karate with a few gung fu movements thrown in. They even had japanese names for some of the drills!!! The only good thing that came out of it was that it wasnt "shaolin do" but rather a break away and thus, I had some real exposure to more actual gung fu through "seminars" by friends of the teachers, which were of real gung fu lineages such as tang lang and Pow chuan.
As a former teacher I felt the Shaolin-Do branch the Chinese Shaolin Center was a large money making scheme that benefited the west coast heads of the system David & Sharon Soard. It made them an inordinate amount of extra money. There were six viable Western schools out of 16 under the Soard's when I was in the art. They were Phoenix, Boise, Albuquerque and three in California. The other schools did decently, but the Instructors had to have part or full time non-martial art jobs. You were required to have One Master David and Sharon visit immediately upon opening. When you had enough students you invited Sin The in for a visit. The typical visit entailed dinner, movies, a park visit, plane tickets, 80% of the festival fees, room and board, and transportation for the Soard's and any instructors that attended.
David and Sharon Soard came in Friday and left some time Monday afternoon or evening. Sin The' usually charged students $100 per person for the festival in Denver. The Soard's festivals ran between $60 to $75 per person though sometimes discounts were available after you attended the first one at full price. At the seminars, only $10 of the testing fees went to the instructor, and everything else went to the Soards. The patches, certificates and ancillary costs came to roughly $5. So, for your time and effort instructing your personal students you only made five dollars per person at the test.
In his deposition The' says that every school under David Soard had to host him once a year for testing (transcript p. 15), that the Soards would pay him the black belt testing fees and the seminar fees, and that they were able to pay The' three to six times what other schools paid him. (transcript, p. 18, 25) The' claimed that when the Soard's tested students without him, they would be paid $10 to $15 for each testing student with the school instructor/owner receiving the rest of the testing fee. (transcript, p. 19-20) In my experience, as a former instructor, I was only allowed to keep $10 of which $5 went to pay expenses during these testing visits.
As a former instructor and practitioner I have heard all of the stories. When I began my own research, I felt that he had legit training and made up all but a few aspects of the art. During the research I realized, in my opinion, a large portion of Shaolin Do was a sham and I eventually quit teaching. This transcript confirms that my suspicions and research were correct. One of the interesting aspects is the rank comment and The's admission that his Rank is in an art which is not Shaolin Do. Also, that he is a level five, but he changed it to ten when he came to America. In the deposition, The' admits knowing maybe 300 forms, admits to many of the stories being for advertising purposes only, and that he doesn't know 900 forms. The interesting part is the details and explanations that he gives which are not consistent. -
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Posted On:
3/21/2012 6:16pm



Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)--
Amazing work, as always Sam, IIF. I know we've had hundreds of people come through here who've wasted time and money at Shaolin Do schools.
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Posted On:
3/22/2012 10:27am

Style: Traditional Mix--
Truly a revelation! The very best part of this is the copies of court documents, that I had not previously seen. Unfortunately, I have to admit that I gave way too many years to SD, while I was also training with Louisville Judo Club. Thanks for the investigative work, guys!
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Posted On:
3/24/2012 7:14pm -
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Posted On:
3/24/2012 10:00pm



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Posted On:
3/05/2012 5:35pm
The Sin The' Investigation: Transcripts and BS