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  1. Jim_Jude is offline
    Jim_Jude's Avatar

    Shime Waza Test Dummy

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2012 6:21am

    Join us... or die
     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Browning View Post
    He beat her over the head with a bottle before the rape, then they tossed her in a dumpster. That hardly counts as "a little roughed up".
    LOL @ all of the hooker defenders round here. :Hehehe:
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  2. Shawarma is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2012 6:37am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, what a bunch of fags. Everybody knows prostitutes aren't real human beings and don't feel pain or sadness.

    To clarify my previous point: **** you.
  3. battheo is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2012 7:18am


     Style: Quanfa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I hope that ****'s on a list somewhere and is being watched.

    That said, the justice system has done it's work, and he shouldn't be disadvantaged professionally because of it (IMO).

    I'm not saying that the all should be forgiven and forgotten, but losing three and a half years of your life is a punishment. He should be given the chance to demonstrate he's learnt the error of his ways by working productively.

    Hope he gets the **** beaten out of him though.
  4. Hiro Protagonist is offline
    Hiro Protagonist's Avatar

    Has entered Barovia...

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2012 7:50am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No.
    Violence against women, and sexual offenses in general are of a special nature. It's about enjoying the suffering of others.

    Such a person should not have a place, anywhere.
    There is legal justice, and there's moral justice.


    Unless the guy has become a fucking saint, **** him, and **** Jim Jude for speaking on his behalf.

    Last edited by Hiro Protagonist; 3/18/2012 8:07am at .
  5. battheo is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2012 8:53am


     Style: Quanfa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiro Protagonist View Post
    No.
    Violence against women, and sexual offenses in general are of a special nature. It's about enjoying the suffering of others.

    Such a person should not have a place, anywhere.
    There is legal justice, and there's moral justice.


    Unless the guy has become a fucking saint, **** him, and **** Jim Jude for speaking on his behalf.

    I can sympathise with that, and I'll openly confess that I would find it very difficult to live in accordance with my own words.

    But, what would you suggest? Would you suggest that people like this are ostracised? It's all very well to make grand statements like "such a person should not have a place, anywhere. There is legal justice, and there's moral justice." But I'm not sure that translates very well into reality. What does that even mean in practise? Are you advocating vigilante killing? Because suggesting that there is another 'non-legal' justice that must be served, and that will result in him not having a 'place, anywhere' sounds like you are.

    The law is not justice. It's a set of social constraints designed to uphold order in society. But it attempts to approximate justice. And if you want it to work, you have to abide by it, even when you're at odds with it (yeah, I wouldn't necessarily go as far as Socrates but, you know...)

    In reality, we're safer with these people inside the system than left outside of it. And further more, when a person has done their time they should be allowed back into society. I'm not saying they should have the same freedoms and privacy as everyone else (I advocate surveillance) but they should be given a fair shot at life after they've served their punishment. Young people make mistakes, and the 'normal' person has the capability to commit horrible evil. He should be given a chance at rehabilitation.

    I realise this leaves a bitter taste in the mouth, and I find it difficult to accept. It's nonetheless correct.
  6. WoodyCorpus is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2012 9:33am


     Style: American Kenpo, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm very ambivalent towards this... No, actually I'm not. A number of girls I know or have known have been raped and the second hand pain I've felt has scarred me for life, even though it's nothing compared to what said girls must have endured. Rape concictions are laughable at best, and a few years in prison does NOT repay the damage done.
    So let this guy into a cage, let him get a fair beating, and let him rot in his own private hell.

    I will now gladly take that cheese with my whine.
  7. Matt Phillips is offline
    Matt Phillips's Avatar

    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2012 11:54am

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawarma View Post
    Yeah, what a bunch of fags. Everybody knows prostitutes aren't real human beings and don't feel pain or sadness.

    To clarify my previous point: **** you.
    Couldn't have put it any better. You don't put someone's daughter in a dumpster.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  8. Basagulero is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2012 11:58am


     Style: Lightning Arnis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is appalling.

    He and his buddy should've gotten life.
  9. judokarl is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2012 12:24pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by battheo View Post

    But, what would you suggest? Would you suggest that people like this are ostracised? It's all very well to make grand statements like "such a person should not have a place, anywhere. There is legal justice, and there's moral justice." But I'm not sure that translates very well into reality. What does that even mean in practise? Are you advocating vigilante killing?

    The law is not justice. It's a set of social constraints designed to uphold order in society. But it attempts to approximate justice. And if you want it to work, you have to abide by it, even when you're at odds with it (yeah, I wouldn't necessarily go as far as Socrates but, you know...)

    In reality, we're safer with these people inside the system than left outside of it. And further more, when a person has done their time they should be allowed back into society. I'm not saying they should have the same freedoms and privacy as everyone else (I advocate surveillance) but they should be given a fair shot at life after they've served their punishment. Young people make mistakes, and the 'normal' person has the capability to commit horrible evil. He should be given a chance at rehabilitation.
    I shortened my quote of you to the points you said that I would like to adress. I hope you don't mind. My main argument for them not having him headline their card is that it looks bad on their company. How many sponsors are happy that the front man of the business they have their logo on is a Rapist? While the man may have done the time the District Attorney gave him make no mistake the severity of his charges were greatly lowered for his assistance in giving up his friend and for saving the victim and the DA the headache of a trial.

    The man was part of not just the woman's rape, But Kidnapping. Add that with the fact that he had violated a probation order in the execution of this crime he should be serving more than 2 years. I am probably not as draconian in my opinion when it comes to sex crimes as some of the members here who know someone who has been a victim, or who have young daughters, but Kidnapping, rape, and failing to comply with a probation order is a bigger deal than 2 years. His chance of relapse is great and I would not want to be the owner of the promotion he's in when that bombshell explodes.
    Last edited by judokarl; 3/18/2012 12:24pm at . Reason: Spelling
  10. battheo is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2012 1:33pm


     Style: Quanfa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judokarl View Post
    I shortened my quote of you to the points you said that I would like to adress. I hope you don't mind. My main argument for them not having him headline their card is that it looks bad on their company. How many sponsors are happy that the front man of the business they have their logo on is a Rapist? While the man may have done the time the District Attorney gave him make no mistake the severity of his charges were greatly lowered for his assistance in giving up his friend and for saving the victim and the DA the headache of a trial.

    The man was part of not just the woman's rape, But Kidnapping. Add that with the fact that he had violated a probation order in the execution of this crime he should be serving more than 2 years. I am probably not as draconian in my opinion when it comes to sex crimes as some of the members here who know someone who has been a victim, or who have young daughters, but Kidnapping, rape, and failing to comply with a probation order is a bigger deal than 2 years. His chance of relapse is great and I would not want to be the owner of the promotion he's in when that bombshell explodes.
    2 years? I thought he was sentenced to 3 and a half, I may have missed something.

    I agree as to the severity of the crime, also that he's a social threat (and should be kept under close watch by the relevant authorities).

    I also think that, as difficult as it is, offenders should be given a fair chance at rehabilitation, and that further punishment at the hands of society is likely to reinforce anti-social, criminal, behaviour, rather than prevent it.

    Again, I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished (for the record, I agree that 2 years is too short a sentence for the crime committed), and I'm also not saying he should be left free to re-offend. Just that social justice is a matter that should be decided by the courts.

    Yeah, as to the business thing, it's not really a great interest to me, but I can't see it hurting the promotion. I've certainly been wrong before, incidentally. But, I wouldn't be surprised if lots of fans turned in to watch the rapist take a beating... he'd just be an IRL heel to a lot of them.

    To be fair, I'll probly drop this now, as I've made my position clear and I don't want to imply that his behaviour is defensible. With any luck the girl herself has recovered from the ordeal.
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