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  1. PointyShinyBurn is online now
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    3/16/2012 6:36am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can find plenty of examples on YouTube of people with bad elbow dislocations who fought again, and pretty soon. For example:




    I've also seen it happen personally a couple of times from a post-out-of-a-fall one rather than armbar ones.

    Can you give me an example of any well known combat athlete whose career was ended by an elbow dislocation? Or even an anecdote from your own experience?

    Miesha has said on Twitter that she already has 80% movement.
    The last issue is the question were both of these women poorly coached? I belive there was not alot of coaching at would have helped these girls win but they could have stayed safe if they were more familar with arm bars.
    Anyone who trains MMA is extremely familiar with armbars. They are a basic submission, taught early and consistently just as in Judo. Tate got hurt because she is stubborn, not because she is unaware that there is such a thing as a submission or is unfamiliar with the notion of tapping.
  2. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/16/2012 10:02am

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoratt View Post
    PSB,
    The only MMA I see is on tv. That arm was not a usual injury I have never seen a arm go that far in a arm bar. The people I talked to say she could have career ending injury. As far as Judo I have competed and trained at the top levels nationaly and coached at the top levels world wide, I do know judo and never saw a armbar do that much damage. I am sure that some one will find one on U tube, but it is not a normal injury that elbow is messed up I belive she was very poorly coached and may never do mma again. Guess time will tell.
    You sure you're a judo blackbelt? Juji Gatame was the very first submission I ever learned. The very first SAMBO class I ever took taught this armbar first. The very first BJJ class I ever attended taught this first. So....
  3. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    3/16/2012 10:18am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was under the impression that elbow attacks are allowed in Judo because injuries there heal relatively quickly and easily, as opposed to say a shoulder.
  4. judoratt is online now

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    Posted On:
    3/16/2012 10:21am


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    You sure you're a judo blackbelt? Juji Gatame was the very first submission I ever learned. The very first SAMBO class I ever took taught this armbar first. The very first BJJ class I ever attended taught this first. So....
    Yes, are you questioning it? I didn't ask bulshido for the Black belt lable some one else put it up. But I do have IJF, USJF USA Judo and Kodokan cirtificates. PM me if you need a resume.
  5. judoratt is online now

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    Posted On:
    3/16/2012 10:43am


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    PSB,
    I have seen a local kid have his career ended with a dislocation from a postout. Tod Brehe had a bad injury don't know if he was ever the same, but these are rare. What I saw with both Budd and Tate was how far out the elbow went, and the posibility of severe ligiment damage.
    When either of these two girls fight again come back PSB and kick my ass. I lhave ben wrong before, but I think those elbows are in bad shape.
  6. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/16/2012 10:50am

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoratt View Post
    Yes, are you questioning it? I didn't ask bulshido for the Black belt lable some one else put it up. But I do have IJF, USJF USA Judo and Kodokan cirtificates. PM me if you need a resume.
    You must be a Judo Blackbelt, you have no fucking sense of humor.
  7. judoratt is online now

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    Posted On:
    3/16/2012 11:16am


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    You must be a Judo Blackbelt, you have no fucking sense of humor.
    Glad I finaly met Omega Supreme's criteria. Can I get a flyer/title that says "Approved by Omega Supreme":EWBTE2:
  8. judoratt is online now

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    Posted On:
    3/16/2012 11:44am


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Chen i agree the shoulder heals very slowly and is a very complex joint. Years ago when sholder and Knee locks were banned because judoka that got injured shoulders and or knees with out the use of modern medicine would lose the livelyhoods.
  9. NeilG is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/16/2012 12:21pm


     Style: Kendo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don't know for sure but I speculate that you also have more time to recognise the danger with the elbow before injury occurs.
  10. Gabetuno is offline
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    Woah. Alex Van Halen got huge.

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    Posted On:
    3/16/2012 7:23pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My two cents: Both Budd and Tate were fighting for big stakes. To be clear, I definitely would have tapped. That given, I'd say that with that adrenaline and energy pumping, if you feel your elbow break, but you don't have any immediate crippling pain (probably due to that handy thing your body does during extreme injury), why WOULD you tap? Your arm's done, your elbow is backward, the damage is through. Might as well try and get out till the ref stops it. There are several examples in MMA history of crippled fighters still getting wins, so it's not like there's 0 incentive.

    I also don't believe that the lack f tapping says anything about the instruction. Maybe the lack of escape, but not the lack of tapping. The fact is that both Julia Budd and Miesha Tate come from some serious camps, and it's EXTREMELY improbable that any of her coaches haven't either a) gone over armbars to death, or b) instructed her to not tap if her arm is broken. Coaches with those kinds of reps just don't do that. Sometimes, the experience gap negates the preparation you could make, even if you know the move coming, and sometimes fighters don't tap, even if they know they should.

    The responsibility is squarely on the fighters for their performance in the ring. They have the tools, there's no denying. Ronda's tools were better, and so was her execution. Tate was stubborn and wanted to win. The end.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcastro
    He screams like a little girl as the pain ripples through his arm, shoots up into his brain, and now your dick is hard.


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