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  1. ChenPengFi is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2012 1:42pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In Hawai'i:

    §703-300 Definitions relating to justification. In this chapter, unless a different meaning is plainly required:

    "Believes" means reasonably believes.

    "Deadly force" means force which the actor uses with the intent of causing or which the actor knows to create a substantial risk of causing death or serious bodily harm.
    (my bold)

    I believe the bold is a common and important distinction, in many states.
  2. CNagy is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2012 1:45pm


     Style: Hiatus for Gen. Fitness

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    Legally, as i understand it, a "standard ass-kicking" is "deadly-force" and in many states could certainly be legal justification for one to "to whip out the Ultimate Nulifier and cry self-defense later", SYG aside.
    http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/Chapter776

    Everything you could want to know about Justifiable Use of Force in Florida.

    Quote Originally Posted by 776.06
    776.06 Deadly force.—(1) The term “deadly force” means force that is likely to cause death or great bodily harm and includes, but is not limited to: ...
    There's more but it pertains to use of deadly force by LEOs.
  3. ChenPengFi is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2012 1:48pm

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     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Note the "in many states" for the general statement and yes, i was quoting the FL statutes for the specific instance.

    edit: Matt's question sounded general.
  4. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2012 2:02pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    He's 17 and that will answer most of your questions. We caught a dude peeping on our teen friend, ran, came back and never once thought about pedophillia, rape, ramifications or calling the cops.

    You are Superman when you are 13-23 approx. until you encounter a death or something similar. I'm not even addressing looking like a badass to your girl.
    True that. Young men often do stupid and aggressive things. It's a bit like asking why crazy people do crazy things--the question answers itself.

    No 17 year-old football player is going to run shouting that a man is chasing him--that would be shameful. Certain cultures also have an aggressive view of how a man should act and, from what we know of Martin, it looks like he was on his way into one of those. Perhaps his "fight or flight" was in overdrive. He didn't pick flight.
  5. submessenger is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2012 2:54pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    IiF and RJ - of course, you're right. Can that stand up as a valid reason to engage a persistent follower, though? That is the question I was really trying to get at.

    In other words, should it not also be considered self defense on Martin's part? After all, if his fight-or-flight was kicking, he very well may have feared that Zimmerman was coming to kill him.
  6. tgace is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2012 3:15pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

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    Quote Originally Posted by daddykata View Post
    IiF and RJ - of course, you're right. Can that stand up as a valid reason to engage a persistent follower, though? That is the question I was really trying to get at.

    In other words, should it not also be considered self defense on Martin's part? After all, if his fight-or-flight was kicking, he very well may have feared that Zimmerman was coming to kill him.
    Minus more than some guy following you I don't know if that qualifies as reasonable belief your life is in danger. If Zimmermans story is true Martin wasn't so afraid that he couldn't approach and engage....

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
  7. submessenger is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2012 3:42pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by tgace View Post
    Minus more than some guy following you I don't know if that qualifies as reasonable belief your life is in danger. If Zimmermans story is true Martin wasn't so afraid that he couldn't approach and engage....

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
    In his version of events, Zimmerman had turned around and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from behind, the two exchanged words and then Trayvon punched him in the nose, sending him to the ground, and began beating him.
    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...black-teenager

    I had forgotten this part of the story... Thanks.
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2012 3:54pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Quote Originally Posted by daddykata View Post
    IiF and RJ - of course, you're right. Can that stand up as a valid reason to engage a persistent follower, though? That is the question I was really trying to get at.
    Stop. You are beign an idiot adult. I am not talking about standing up or any other stupid **** used to make anyone switch sides. Don't move the goal posts. You asked WHY a 17 rear old boy, **** the courts and trying kids as adults for my point, is not thinking logically. Well, yeah, no **** he didn't call the cops, he didn't call 911, and he decided to confront an idiot following him AFTER his girlfriend questioned his boyhood/manhood. He's a kid.
    In other words, should it not also be considered self defense on Martin's part? After all, if his fight-or-flight was kicking, he very well may have feared that Zimmerman was coming to kill him.
    Half the idiocy in this thread occurs because posters do this right here. People refuse to separate court from young dumb and full of cum.

    You (impersonal) ask a question that has at least two answers and then clarify after you receive a different response than expected.

    Edit: This pretty much applies to everyone minus maybe Rivington and a few others.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 4/05/2012 3:57pm at .
  9. submessenger is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2012 5:09pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Stop. You are beign an idiot adult. I am not talking about standing up or any other stupid **** used to make anyone switch sides. Don't move the goal posts. You asked WHY a 17 rear old boy, **** the courts and trying kids as adults for my point, is not thinking logically. Well, yeah, no **** he didn't call the cops, he didn't call 911, and he decided to confront an idiot following him AFTER his girlfriend questioned his boyhood/manhood. He's a kid.
    Half the idiocy in this thread occurs because posters do this right here. People refuse to separate court from young dumb and full of cum.

    You (impersonal) ask a question that has at least two answers and then clarify after you receive a different response than expected.

    Edit: This pretty much applies to everyone minus maybe Rivington and a few others.
    No, I'm genuinely conflicted - which is why the back and forth. Not moving the goal posts, trying to understand the situation from both sides. I'm not trying to adjudicate the case, I'm trying to rectify my own feelings about it, and by extension, the laws involved.
  10. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2012 11:37pm

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is a martial arts forum. I'm surprised no one's really weighing in on the odds of a 140 lb 17 year old landing a one shot nose breaking punch, knocking down a grown man with 100 lbs on him...and then out muscling him enough to be bashing his head off the ground.

    Quick question, what are the odds of a trained individual at a buck fourty holding down a 240 lb adult long enough to anything? What, the kid's Tommy Hearns with d3adly grapple?

    Where's the Bullshido skepticism? That's partly what's pissing me off about this thread!


    sent from my Android by regular shitty browser

    EDIT: Not to mention against an alert person who was armed.
    Last edited by bobyclumsyninja; 4/05/2012 11:46pm at . Reason: Is this suddenly MAP, where we buy bullshit fairy tales?

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