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  1. CNagy is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/02/2012 6:27pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    That can't come in to evidence at trial unless he was convicted--and then only sometimes. It's also 9 years ago, so he'd be ~18 then. It would be very difficult for a judge to let that in.

    Yes, a key point is whether he legitimately feared for his life. But how he got in the position to use the gun is going to be a critical factor in establishing self-defense. If he shot the guy standing from three feet away, well that's different from shooting him from underneath.
    Zimmerman's lawyer said that his self defense claim if it went to court would make use of the Stand-Your-Ground law, which presumably wouldn't apply if Zimmerman were under Martin at the time of the shooting. Assuming his lawyer knows when the law applies, that does seem to imply that Zimmerman escaped the mount and created some sort of distance. If the law allows you to stand your ground instead of flee an attacker, and if that is the intended defense, then that seems to be saying that Zimmerman was in a position where he could flee but chose to stand his ground. His fear for his life could come from the attack and the notion that even if he were in a position to escape, he could not outrun Martin if Martin chose to give chase. Or having been attacked and bloodied, and fearing for his life from that attack, he may have just drawn on the kid and shot him.

    If that's not Zimmerman screaming
    in the background of the 911 call (if that can somehow reliably be determined), though, then a good 40 seconds at least elapsed between Zimmerman drawing the gun (presumably the reason Martin would start yelling for help) and the gunshot.
  2. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/02/2012 6:37pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    But how he got in the position to use the gun is going to be a critical factor in establishing self-defense.
    Well...in my non-lawyer opinion...yes and no. In the court of public opinion Yes. A jury will tend to look at Zimmerman in a bad light based on the actions that put him on the scene of the incident. But the fact of the matter is that even a racist, cop-wannabe, prior conviction, neighborhood watch commando can follow a person around calling him racial slurs and still legitimately use deadly force in self-defense IF indeed the person he was following decked him and started bashing his head into the concrete. Which is the hurdle the DA here is trying to find evidence to overcome.

    I'm far from a Zimmerman supporter here. My only dog in this hunt is to quell some of this crazy "cop cover-up"..."why didn't the cops arrest him on the spot?" nonsense.
  3. Devil is online now
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    4/02/2012 8:29pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by CNagy View Post
    Zimmerman's lawyer said that his self defense claim if it went to court would make use of the Stand-Your-Ground law, which presumably wouldn't apply if Zimmerman were under Martin at the time of the shooting. Assuming his lawyer knows when the law applies, that does seem to imply that Zimmerman escaped the mount and created some sort of distance.
    Nah, I don't think so. I believe Zimmerman's story is that Martin approached him as he was returning to his car, they exchanged words, then Martin attacked him. I think stand your ground will come into play because his lawyer will want to establish that Zimmerman had no duty to retreat if he felt threatened by Martin's actions.

    I don't see where mount escapes come into play. I have heard nothing that indicates any such thing.
  4. CNagy is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/02/2012 8:42pm


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    I would think that any duty to retreat is dependent upon the ability to retreat. Before he was attacked, there was nothing to defend against. Once he was on the ground, there was no ability to retreat. If he shot Martin from that position, that would seem to be clear cut self defense rather than a stand your ground scenario. Just throwing a possibility out there, because I haven't read anything at all regarding how the fight on the ground played out. It just seems odd for the lawyer to be citing Stand Your Ground if the gun didn't actually enter into the scenario until Zimmerman had no means of retreat.
  5. submessenger is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/02/2012 9:13pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by CNagy View Post
    I would think that any duty to retreat is dependent upon the ability to retreat. Before he was attacked, there was nothing to defend against. Once he was on the ground, there was no ability to retreat. If he shot Martin from that position, that would seem to be clear cut self defense rather than a stand your ground scenario. Just throwing a possibility out there, because I haven't read anything at all regarding how the fight on the ground played out. It just seems odd for the lawyer to be citing Stand Your Ground if the gun didn't actually enter into the scenario until Zimmerman had no means of retreat.
    Maybe he (the lawyer) is posturing/misdirecting, hoping that prosecution will concentrate their resources on one scenario? Probably not, I'm an idiot for bringing it up, but this is not the first time it's occurred to me in this case.

    By the way, I had the unfortunate opportunity to drive in Orlando this past weekend (mostly I-Drive and resort areas). I do not envy you.
  6. CNagy is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/02/2012 9:46pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by daddykata View Post
    Maybe he (the lawyer) is posturing/misdirecting, hoping that prosecution will concentrate their resources on one scenario? Probably not, I'm an idiot for bringing it up, but this is not the first time it's occurred to me in this case.

    By the way, I had the unfortunate opportunity to drive in Orlando this past weekend (mostly I-Drive and resort areas). I do not envy you.
    The UCF area isn't quite as bad, traffic-wise, but the drivers are still pants-on-head retarded. Then again, my view is affected by the fact that I don't have to go out into rush hour. That's a nightmare.
    Last edited by CNagy; 4/02/2012 10:12pm at .
  7. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/02/2012 9:50pm

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    Zimmerman called the Sanford Police Department 46 times in the last 15 months.

    How does a civilian with a history of confrontations with police call 911 so much and not get at least a stern talking to?

    Zimmerman should have been in jail or maybe a mental ward before he shot Trayvan, that would have solved everything nice and simple.
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/02/2012 9:53pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Zimmerman called the Sanford Police Department 46 times in the last 15 months.
    .....and?

    How does a civilian with a history of confrontations with police call 911 so much and not get at least a stern talking to?
    You have proof that didn't happen?

    Zimmerman should have been in jail or maybe a mental ward before he shot Trayvan, that would have solved everything nice and simple.
    For calling 911? LOL. Oh and the least you can do is spell Trayvon's name correctly.
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/02/2012 10:12pm

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    http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-mar...2#.T3poydUuieM
    Uh oh, Video enhancement that shows possible injuries on the back of Zimmerman's head.
  10. JohnnyCache is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/02/2012 11:01pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    That can't come in to evidence at trial unless he was convicted--and then only sometimes. It's also 9 years ago, so he'd be ~18 then. It would be very difficult for a judge to let that in.
    .
    Why would that mitigate things? Because his youth implies poor judgement?
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.

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