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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2012 11:59am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Black was brought up and we all know how you react to them apples no matter what.

    According to CNN affiliate WFTV, Zimmerman, who is white, described Martin as a suspicious black man to a dispatcher.
  2. PointyShinyBurn is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2012 12:04pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So, devil, dyed-in-the-wool they-can-pry-it-from-my-dead-hands type that you are, what would be your response if some random arsehole came up to you on the street and demanded that you account for your presence in your own neighbourhood?
  3. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2012 12:07pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
    You're a plod, diesel_tke? Is it your understanding that if someone claims self defence then you can't arrest them until you have specific evidence that they're lying?
    You have to have probable cause to arrest. Probable cause can be established in a bunch of different ways. The other thing is that he can alway be arrested later if probable cause is established at a later date due to more evidence. So it is in a holding pattern right now.

    And yes, I'm making assumptions, but then again everyone is until the full investigation is done. And also, everyone will be making assumptions unless they sit in the trial personally and listen to all the arguments and evidence.

    But I personally, think the neighborhood watch guy initiated the whole thing. And why, because he saw a black kid walking in his white neighborhood? And how is it self defence if he initiated the contact? Also, in Florida you can only use the amount of force that is necessary to quell the disturbance. So say the watch "Captain" wanted to stop and question the teenager. Ok, well he has no authority to do that. But say that he did, so he is questioning the teenager and the teenager wants to leave. He has a right to do that unless he is under arrest. Which this watch guy can't do. One, because he isn't a cop. Two, because he isn't doing anything criminal.

    You see a suspicious person walking down the street. So what? Suspicious people are allowed to walk down the street. You want to talk to him, but he says **** off. So what, you have no reason to stop him from leaving. Even if you are a cop. Because he still has done nothing wrong.

    Then the guys tries to stop and detain the teenager. Well, that is false imprisonment and battery.

    He should have done what the 911 operator said to do. Which was "not to confront Martin". Because that is all he can legally do. Then the cop gets there and sorts it out, per Florida Constitutional Law.

    So yeah, **** that guy.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

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  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
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    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
    So, devil, dyed-in-the-wool they-can-pry-it-from-my-dead-hands type that you are, what would be your response if some random arsehole came up to you on the street and demanded that you account for your presence in your own neighbourhood?
    Probably the same way I would.

    Here's my assumption, Zimmerman detained him and the kid retaliated, yes he's a teen which equals kid to me, Zimmerman's pride was hurt and he shot him.
  5. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2012 12:17pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
    So, devil, dyed-in-the-wool they-can-pry-it-from-my-dead-hands type that you are, what would be your response if some random arsehole came up to you on the street and demanded that you account for your presence in your own neighbourhood?
    There's no evidence that's what happened in this case. There's no evidence he spoke to the kid at all. He didn't break the law by driving down the street.
  6. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2012 12:19pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh, and just to be clear, Murder is not legal in Florida under any circumstances. Killing is legal in certain circumstances.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

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    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  7. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2012 12:20pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_tke View Post
    You have to have probable cause to arrest. Probable cause can be established in a bunch of different ways. The other thing is that he can alway be arrested later if probable cause is established at a later date due to more evidence. So it is in a holding pattern right now.

    And yes, I'm making assumptions, but then again everyone is until the full investigation is done. And also, everyone will be making assumptions unless they sit in the trial personally and listen to all the arguments and evidence.

    But I personally, think the neighborhood watch guy initiated the whole thing. And why, because he saw a black kid walking in his white neighborhood? And how is it self defence if he initiated the contact? Also, in Florida you can only use the amount of force that is necessary to quell the disturbance. So say the watch "Captain" wanted to stop and question the teenager. Ok, well he has no authority to do that. But say that he did, so he is questioning the teenager and the teenager wants to leave. He has a right to do that unless he is under arrest. Which this watch guy can't do. One, because he isn't a cop. Two, because he isn't doing anything criminal.

    You see a suspicious person walking down the street. So what? Suspicious people are allowed to walk down the street. You want to talk to him, but he says **** off. So what, you have no reason to stop him from leaving. Even if you are a cop. Because he still has done nothing wrong.

    Then the guys tries to stop and detain the teenager. Well, that is false imprisonment and battery.

    He should have done what the 911 operator said to do. Which was "not to confront Martin". Because that is all he can legally do. Then the cop gets there and sorts it out, per Florida Constitutional Law.

    So yeah, **** that guy.
    I agree, if Zimmerman acted as you say above, he was wrong and he's fucked. But we don't know that's what happened.
  8. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2012 12:20pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    There's no evidence that's what happened in this case. There's no evidence he spoke to the kid at all. He didn't break the law by driving down the street.
    So did he shoot the kid from his car? Did he shoot without giving any verbal comands?

    As you say, we don't really know what happened yet. I will like to hear the 911 call. Most of this discussion will be over at that point, probably.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  9. Devil is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2012 12:21pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Probably the same way I would.

    Here's my assumption, Zimmerman detained him and the kid retaliated, yes he's a teen which equals kid to me, Zimmerman's pride was hurt and he shot him.
    What leads you to believe he detained him?
  10. PointyShinyBurn is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2012 12:23pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    There's no evidence that's what happened in this case. There's no evidence he spoke to the kid at all. He didn't break the law by driving down the street.
    Quote Originally Posted by http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-watch-shooting-trayvon-martin-probe-reveals-questionable/story?id=15907136
    Zimmerman described Martin as suspicious because he was wearing a hooded sweatshirt and walking slowly in the rain, police later told residents at a town hall.

    A dispatcher told him to wait for a police cruiser, and not leave his vehicle.

    But about a minute later, Zimmerman left his car wearing a red sweatshirt and pursued Martin on foot between two rows of townhouses, about 70 yards from where the teen was going.
    Hmmm.. Sounds a bit to me like he might have confronted him. He must have at least suggested he might to the dispatcher, otherwise why would they have suggested he not do that?

    It's a pretty bad bit of luck if he decided to go get some gum instead and the same kid he was just following randomly swung at him.
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