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  1. CapnMunchh is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/18/2013 6:52pm

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     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OwlMatt View Post
    I didn't read it this way; maybe this is the root of our disagreement.
    Possibly. When I said "Didn't she hear the verdict?" I meant it as a comment on the article's implication that her personal opinion of his innocence was somehow significant because she is his wife, and that's enough to call the verdict into question. One can legitimately disagree with the verdict, but only if the disagreement is based on the evidence.

    I'm sure it was hard enough for the jury to reach a verdict even after being in the courtroom and hearing all the evidence. Unless we read the entire transcript and see all the exhibits, we can have whatever opinion we want about his guilt, but our opinion is based on incomplete information. I'm bothered by questioning the legitimacy of a verdict without the benefit of knowing all the facts, or worse yet, based on irrelevant statements. I'm not bothered by calling the man a fool because of the obvious mistakes he made.

    If I'm being somewhat anal about this distinction, maybe its because I used to be a criminal prosecutor and believe in carefully keeping our thinking straight when we talk about convicting somebody of a serious crime.
  2. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    11/18/2013 8:40pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CapnMunchh View Post
    Possibly. When I said "Didn't she hear the verdict?" I meant it as a comment on the article's implication that her personal opinion of his innocence was somehow significant because she is his wife, and that's enough to call the verdict into question. One can legitimately disagree with the verdict, but only if the disagreement is based on the evidence.

    I'm sure it was hard enough for the jury to reach a verdict even after being in the courtroom and hearing all the evidence. Unless we read the entire transcript and see all the exhibits, we can have whatever opinion we want about his guilt, but our opinion is based on incomplete information. I'm bothered by questioning the legitimacy of a verdict without the benefit of knowing all the facts, or worse yet, based on irrelevant statements. I'm not bothered by calling the man a fool because of the obvious mistakes he made.

    If I'm being somewhat anal about this distinction, maybe its because I used to be a criminal prosecutor and believe in carefully keeping our thinking straight when we talk about convicting somebody of a serious crime.
    And sometimes even the jury doesn't see ALL the evidence, for different reasons, correct?

    They do get to see all the evidence admitted in court, though.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  3. CapnMunchh is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/18/2013 11:26pm

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     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    And sometimes even the jury doesn't see ALL the evidence, for different reasons, correct?

    They do get to see all the evidence admitted in court, though.
    True, it has to be deemed reliable and relevant to be considered. That's the judge's job.
    Last edited by CapnMunchh; 11/18/2013 11:31pm at .
  4. Devil is offline
    Devil's Avatar

    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2013 11:44am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Shoot a black kid in the chest - you're free to go, Sir.

    Smash a white woman's coffee table - Go straight to jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.

    Are people making this a thing yet? I haven't bothered checking but I hope so.
  5. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2013 12:18pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CapnMunchh View Post
    True, it has to be deemed reliable and relevant to be considered. That's the judge's job.
    Yeah, I've seen that process a few times. The old saw about making sausage comes to mind.
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  6. CapnMunchh is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2013 12:45pm

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     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Yeah, I've seen that process a few times. The old saw about making sausage comes to mind.
    Problem is that the rules of admissibility have to be consistent so they can be applied to all cases, and they work better in some cases than others. The fine tuning has to be done by the judge, but they're like everybody else. Some are good, others doze off at the bench (literally).

    Also, its been my experience that people who are completely innocent of breaking the law rarely end up in front of a jury, much less convicted of a crime, but it does happen. Excluding certain types of evidence, such as evidence of prior arrests, or a wife's opinion of her husband's guilt, may be counterintuitive, but it helps to keep those cases down to the minimum.
  7. submessenger is offline
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    Transmaniacon MC

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2013 1:21pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's headlines here in Trayvon country. I think Z must have PTSD or something - at least, that should be his defense.

    "I broke chica's table because Martin attacked me and forced me to kill him."

    Yeah, that sounds about right.
  8. ermghoti is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2013 4:48pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ+Sanda

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    Shoot a black kid in the chest - you're free to go, Sir.

    Smash a white woman's coffee table - Go straight to jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.

    Are people making this a thing yet? I haven't bothered checking but I hope so.
    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil
    Why is it so goddamn hard to find a video of it? I've seen videos I'm pretty sure are alien spacecraft. But still no good Krav.
  9. CapnMunchh is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2013 5:06pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: TangSooDo/Yubiwaza

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    Shoot a black kid in the chest - you're free to go, Sir.

    Smash a white woman's coffee table - Go straight to jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.

    Are people making this a thing yet? I haven't bothered checking but I hope so.
    The man was likely a fool and a fuckup before the Trayvon incident, and remains one today. Only difference is that, from now on, every time he fucks up we will hear about it in the news.
  10. Devil is offline
    Devil's Avatar

    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2013 5:12pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CapnMunchh View Post
    The man was likely a fool and a fuckup before the Trayvon incident, and remains one today. Only difference is that, from now on, every time he fucks up we will hear about it in the news.
    Only as long as he's disrespecting a white lady's furniture. Amirite???

    Come on, dammit! It's not too late for riots. The aftermath of the Zimmerman trial was the only damn thing I was wrong about during the whole thing. I was predicting riots and didn't get them. It's not too late to make me right though.

    Come on black people and Hedgehogies! I hate being wrong.

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