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  1. adskibullus is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2013 10:42am


     Style: Lifting heavy stuff

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OwlMatt View Post
    How about having your head slammed into concrete? Does that justify lethal force or are you cool with that?

    He wasn't carrying a gun to follow Martin. He was carrying a gun because he carried a gun.

    Following someone is not starting an altercation. Is it legal in Britain to beat the **** out of someone just because they're following you?

    He was previously accused, not previously convicted. I'm not an expert on gun laws in Florida, but I suspect being a convicted felon would prevent him from legally owning a gun.

    Simple. One is against the law and the other isn't.

    Your feelings about America are irrelevant and you don't speak for the world.

    I erased the last part as it was written out of frustration and wasnt proper, i apologise.

    Why does anybody need to walk around with a gun? I can understand having guns in youre home but why in the streets, even the most law abiding citizens can lose there rag and that coupled with a gun in hand is a terrible cocktail. Why was zimmerman carring a gun in the first place is it normal to carry a gun around with you in america?

    Is there any evidence to suggest that zimmermans head was being bounced off of the curb? Is martin was able to generate enough forced to kill zimmerman then why wasnt he dead or at least koed before z was able to draw his gun and fire it?

    No in britain you would be able to beat the **** out of someone for following you, but you also wouldnt be able to shoot or stab anybody to death in self defense either. If you killed somebody defending youreself in a fight youd probably get manslaughter unless it was a freak accident ie one punch kill, because it takes alot to actually beat somebody to death with using unreasonable force.
  2. erezb is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2013 10:52am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chili Pepper View Post
    Do you live in a fucking cowboy movie??
    Nope, but i carried a rifle and a gun for years as part of either work or service, and if someone is threatening you with less than immediate lethal force, you should try and reduce the lethality of your shot. Shooting in the legs is common enough here for exactly those kind of incidences. They will deliberately not carry guns so not to get killed, but still will try and kill you with cold weapons or their bear hands, so if you feel threatened and you don't have any other choice but to shoot, you shoot to the legs.
    I think is you who live in a cowboy movie where you are this cold blooded killer.
  3. adskibullus is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2013 10:53am


     Style: Lifting heavy stuff

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    Nothing gives me a boner like Brits fretting over US law.

    No, I never wonder why foreigners hate America. I'm not looking for approval.
    Glad i could help ;-), sorry about the hate america part that was uncalled for and was written out of fustration.

    Yes it is weird how things like this gets sum brits wound, but to me the whole thing seems so barbaric! Dont you just despair at the state of the world when you see reports from saudi arabia for example when you hear that a female rape victim was stonned to death for adultery?

    America is such a technologicall advance country yet when you hear about cases like zimmerman v martin the outcome seems so backward and barbaric, the fact that a human life has been extinguished yet there is no punishment or judgement for such an extreme action. This obsession with guns and needless wars i was hoping after Bush obama was going to drag the US into the modern liberal way for thinking but instead youre left with the old cowboy mentality, its saddening
  4. adskibullus is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2013 10:55am


     Style: Lifting heavy stuff

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You do realise that shooting people in the legs will still kill them right?
  5. submessenger is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/15/2013 11:03am

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    Quote Originally Posted by erezb View Post
    I would say he should have shot him in the leg or something but this position did not allow him any other option. A warning shot of sorts would just as likely end with the kid holding the gun, Z was incompetent enough for that. He got himself into an impossible situation.
    First, you never shoot in the leg - you shoot to stop your assailant. Wherever that round happens to go, if it stops the assailant, you've shot well.

    Also, femoral artery - yeah, the old shoot in the leg thing will probably get you one of two things - an angry assailant or a dead one.

    Next, you never shoot a warning shot - you shoot to stop your assailant. You are responsible for EVERY round that comes out of your gun. If that round happens to travel a mile and come down in some little girl's living room while she's watching the Simpsons, you're screwed. If you shoot into the ground and it ricochets off a rock or something, you could be screwed.
  6. ermghoti is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/15/2013 11:06am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by adskibullus View Post
    Then youre laws are retarded, being British ill never get my head around being able to defend yourself with lethal force just for being punched.
    Four times as many people are killed in the US by unarmed attackers as by semi-automatic rifles. You can defend yourself with lethal force when a reasonable person would believe they were in danger of immediate death or grave physical harm. Being mounted and pummeled against a concrete sidewalk easily meets that criteria.

    Quote Originally Posted by adskibullus View Post
    Also how can you justify not jailing a man eho shoots dead a young man yet send a woman to jail for 20 years for firing shots in the air to scare off an abusive partener?
    You can defend yourself with lethal force when a reasonable person would believe they were in danger of immediate death or grave physical harm. When you have time to discharge a weapon without intending to hit an attacker, it is prima facie evidence that you did not believe you were in fear of immediate death or grave physical harm. If you needed the deadly force to escape the attack, you would be directing it at the attacker, not the air/ground. This is covered in any basic firearms training in the US, anyone advising otherwise identifies themselves as utterly ignorant of the topic.
    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
  7. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2013 11:07am

    supporting member
     

    0
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Regardless of the trial outcome and the "Get Out of Jail Free Because You Shot First And The Other Guy Can't Testify Because He's Dead" card, George Zimmerman killed an innocent person. Yep, that same "innocent until proven guilty" standard applies to the dead kid after all. Anyone who argues otherwise is deluded.

    Martin never had the luxury of a trial. He wasn't tried and proven guilty of attempted murder or aggravated assault, or any other thing. To date, the evidence showed what he was interested in that night was sugary treats and watching an NBA game with his dad. No history of paranoia, crime, fraud, or violence, unlike the defendant had. No motive to hurt someone unless, perhaps, he felt physically threatened?

    If Martin had smashed Zimmerman's brains all over the curb...would his self defense claim have held up? Why not? If a gun is a legitimate self defense weapon, then so is a curb. Martin could easily have been fearing for his life and defending himself when he was shot, he may have seen the gun and was in fear for his life and the curb was his only weapon. We'll never know.

    One thing I know for sure: if someone with a gun accosts me and my life is at stake, and a curb is available: they are going through that curb, and I am going to claim that it was self defense and I had to use the curb because my assailant was armed.

    It's funny how some people observing this case express that the gun violence is OK and defensible, but the concrete curb violence is somehow different or worse, or that it validates the gun violence done to Martin.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 7/15/2013 11:15am at .
  8. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2013 11:12am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I thought you shot people in the legs to make their allies have to deal with a wounded guy?
  9. Chili Pepper is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/15/2013 11:13am


     Style: Siling Labuyo Arnis

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by erezb View Post
    you should try and reduce the lethality of your shot.
    I of course can't comment on laws in your country, but here in Canada, the law would treat you exactly the same way as if you'd shot at his head.

    "Reduce the lethality of your shot ... " egad.


    I think is you who live in a cowboy movie where you are this cold blooded killer.
    Quite the opposite. If you think you can accurately put a shot into someone's leg with a pistol at the best of times, then you've engaged in cowboy movie physics. If you think it can be accomplished while suffering from the adrenal dump of a fight, then you've gone beyond even that.

    I expect for the vast majority of people, if they shoot at someone, they'll be lucky if they can keep the muzzle pointed at center of mass, let alone a leg. There's a reason why cops are not taught to shoot at a leg, or to "wing 'em", and that's because they'll miss.
  10. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/15/2013 11:14am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post

    It's funny how some people observing this case express that the gun violence is OK and defensible, but the concrete curb violence is somehow different or worse, or that it validates the gun violence done to Martin.

    It's called "self defense".

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