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  1. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2013 7:46pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It does not follow that you get any presumption of innocence when the facts already prove you've killed someone, especially after provoking an encounter with the victim...

    George Zimmerman is certainly NOT innocent of killing someone, after all. And he and his team have to prove it was self defense...the prosecution doesn't have to prove very much at all, only that Zimmerman's use of lethal force (which is incontrovertible) was not justified.

    This is why the 911 call is so critical...it's what suggests the entire situation was caused by Zimmerman, which undermines his claim of self defense. There is no evidence to date that suggests Martin was looking for an encounter with anyone, or that he had a violent past, unlike Zimmerman who does have such a history.

    Zimmerman had a long history of calling E911 (an emergency line) to support every single "suspicious" person he saw, and the last of these calls practically captured him killing one of them. That does not bode well for his defense, in my opinion.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 7/01/2013 7:50pm at .
  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/01/2013 7:52pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by hungryjoe View Post
    Let's see how the evidence plays out before convicting the man. What was that overriding assumption of our justice system we hold so dear? Something about innocent until proven guilty?

    Some posting in this thread would make piss poor jurors.

    and

    WTF does race have to do with this case? Really? It took all of a couple of days for the usual race pimps to show up, posturing as, well, usual. Some ignorant bitch gets up to testify and uses the dreaded 'cracker' term. **** all, she's showing her ass and doesn't matter for ****.

    Context-

    One young man dead before he's had a chance to live a life. Mother and father lost a son. Maybe he was a good kid, maybe not. One man now fighting for his liberty. Maybe he was the aggressor, and again, maybe not. There are no winners here people. You arm chair prosecutors should hope you're shown justice if you ever have need of a fair trial.

    ....disclaimer.....

    Just finished a week of jury duty wherein it would have been a joy to have thrown a gang banger in prison on a weapons charge. Unfortunately, given the evidence presented, we had to vote not guilty. Fucker was and has been guilty of a lot of ****, but the evidence as presented did not meet the level of 'beyond a reasonable doubt' required to convict in this particular case.


    end of rant
    You, as well as others, have played arm chair analyst on this board. Good lord race has ALWAYS played a role and always will.
  3. hungryjoe is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/01/2013 8:17pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    You, as well as others, have played arm chair analyst on this board. Good lord race has ALWAYS played a role and always will.
    and here we go again

    Click image for larger version. 

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  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/01/2013 8:32pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by hungryjoe View Post
    Oh look I woke up douchebag no context Joe. It's been awhile since I've seen your ignorant ass.
  5. OwlMatt is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2013 9:13pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    It does not follow that you get any presumption of innocence when the facts already prove you've killed someone, especially after provoking an encounter with the victim...

    George Zimmerman is certainly NOT innocent of killing someone, after all. And he and his team have to prove it was self defense...the prosecution doesn't have to prove very much at all, only that Zimmerman's use of lethal force (which is incontrovertible) was not justified.

    This is why the 911 call is so critical...it's what suggests the entire situation was caused by Zimmerman, which undermines his claim of self defense. There is no evidence to date that suggests Martin was looking for an encounter with anyone, or that he had a violent past, unlike Zimmerman who does have such a history.

    Zimmerman had a long history of calling E911 (an emergency line) to support every single "suspicious" person he saw, and the last of these calls practically captured him killing one of them. That does not bode well for his defense, in my opinion.
    The 911 call might prove that Zimmerman is an idiot who created a bad situation, but if Martin did attack him -- even for what he thought was a good reason -- shooting Martin is still self-defense.

    To get Zimmerman for murder, the prosecution is going to have to prove that Zimmerman was not responding to threat when he shot Martin, and I don't see how that's possible.
  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/01/2013 9:28pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OwlMatt View Post
    I don't see how that's possible.
    Really?
    it is that thing that got Joe's panties in a wad......race.

    Trial Facts:
    Cracker was used and argued if it was racial.
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...or-offensive/#
    People brought up the jury racial make up.
    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/2...mmerman-trial/
    Discussion of race and use of the term during the trial.
    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...orge-zimmerman
    Here's where they discuss how cops didn't believe it was racial.
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...lysis/2479185/

    All of this makes race have a role in the trial.


    Saying it will always play a role doesn't mean it should. If Joe would have bothered to read the first few pages, before ranting, he would've seen it was basically Devil and I arguing against this **** being racial. I said it was an old mother fucker getting whooped and he shot the young kid beating his ass. I said it was pride not race. The idiot in the picture, white cross bearing guilt wearers and the fucking President of the United States, made this **** racial. It happens all of the time and will never stop, until the old fogies 50+ and up die.

    Wait and see. This will come down to whether, as one of the claims is PROFILING, race mattered or not. You know just like 20 years ago and the racial jury nullification that occurred in the OJ trial.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 7/01/2013 9:31pm at .
  7. hungryjoe is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/01/2013 9:52pm

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    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Saying it will always play a role doesn't mean it should. If Joe would have bothered to read the first few pages, before ranting, he would've seen it was basically Devil and I arguing against this **** being racial. I said it was an old mother fucker getting whooped and he shot the young kid beating his ass. I said it was pride not race. The idiot in the picture, white cross bearing guilt wearers and the fucking President of the United States, made this **** racial. It happens all of the time and will never stop, until the old fogies 50+ and up die.

    Wait and see. This will come down to whether, as one of the claims is PROFILING, race mattered or not. You know just like 20 years ago and the racial jury nullification that occurred in the OJ trial.
    Naw, and thanks for the clarification of your first sentence quoted above. Agreed.

    I read the earlier pages and agree with you and Devil. My wadded panties, as you put it, have to do with some here already having convicted Zimmerman. Rabbit and Bobby to name a couple.

    On the race ****, it is what it is. ****. I'm talking about the media coverage, apologists, race baiting and the usual suspects, hence the photo of pimp Sharpton posted earlier.
  8. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/01/2013 10:16pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by hungryjoe View Post
    I read the earlier pages and agree with you and Devil. My wadded panties, as you put it, have to do with some here already having convicted Zimmerman. Rabbit and Bobby to name a couple.
    http://www.chicagodefender.com/index...lways-get-away

    "Convicting Zimmerman" is not the same as having an opinion on the evidence at the trial so far, which everyone here has given. I'll admit there is a chance Zimmerman is not guilty and will be found as such...I just think it's highly unlikely.

    I won't lie, everything I've read leads me believe a nutty, paranoid guy with a gun killed a kid for no good reason after following him in the dark. I also find it hard to believe this kid was capable of physically killing George Zimmerman. Note that although he was a bit bloody and grassy, George Zimmerman sustained no serious, long term injuries. Not one.

    Did you read Zimmerman was training MMA three days a week? They specifically mentioned "ground and pound" at trial. LOL.

    http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/6/28...artin-shooting

    http://www.theatlanticwire.com/natio...d-pound/66702/
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 7/01/2013 10:23pm at .
  9. OwlMatt is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2013 10:19pm


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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Really?
    it is that thing that got Joe's panties in a wad......race.

    Trial Facts:
    Cracker was used and argued if it was racial.
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...or-offensive/#
    People brought up the jury racial make up.
    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/2...mmerman-trial/
    Discussion of race and use of the term during the trial.
    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...orge-zimmerman
    Here's where they discuss how cops didn't believe it was racial.
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...lysis/2479185/

    All of this makes race have a role in the trial.


    Saying it will always play a role doesn't mean it should. If Joe would have bothered to read the first few pages, before ranting, he would've seen it was basically Devil and I arguing against this **** being racial. I said it was an old mother fucker getting whooped and he shot the young kid beating his ass. I said it was pride not race. The idiot in the picture, white cross bearing guilt wearers and the fucking President of the United States, made this **** racial. It happens all of the time and will never stop, until the old fogies 50+ and up die.

    Wait and see. This will come down to whether, as one of the claims is PROFILING, race mattered or not. You know just like 20 years ago and the racial jury nullification that occurred in the OJ trial.
    I'm confused as to how much of this is in response to the bit of my post you quoted.
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/01/2013 10:21pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by hungryjoe View Post
    Naw, and thanks for the clarification of your first sentence quoted above. Agreed.

    I read the earlier pages and agree with you and Devil. My wadded panties, as you put it, have to do with some here already having convicted Zimmerman. Rabbit and Bobby to name a couple.

    On the race ****, it is what it is. ****. I'm talking about the media coverage, apologists, race baiting and the usual suspects, hence the photo of pimp Sharpton posted earlier.
    Oh then we are on the same page. I hate unnecessary race **** with a passion.
    Quote Originally Posted by OwlMatt View Post
    I'm confused as to how much of this is in response to the bit of my post you quoted.
    All of it.

    No one will listen to the facts IMO. All of this will boil down to race being an issue. I think they over charged him, but I can see the jury being worried for "all da little black chillun" and convicting him. I can also see them saying "look at all the racial pressure it wasn't murder" and finding him not guilty.

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