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  1. Jujutsuka desu is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/07/2012 12:46pm


     Style: Akayama Ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am kind of late here. But Japanese Jujutsu is not about exposure at all. The biggest focus in "Traditional" Japanese Jujutsu is the passing of the Ryuha. It is all about keeping it alive. That's why it takes certain people to want to train in "Traditional" Japanese Jujutsu. The atmosphere and goal in mind is completely different than what you will find in like a BJJ school. As for how the training goes outside of Kata. Well you really don't know. Surprisingly against what most people think... Even some Bujinkan schools have free play Randori.
  2. Lee Watson is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/17/2013 11:22pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Ju-jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok, this is my 1st post on this site, so don't rip me a new one!! I find myself a poor man against some of you guys with your knowledge. I'm a 3rd Dan in Lankin-Fa Ju-jitsu (Established by Professor William Rankin, 10th Dan). Although the style is newish in terms of time, it's origins are much, much older. Prof. Rankin was a student of S.K. Uyenshi, Yukio Tani, as well as few others, but the main basis of the style was from the fighting art of the Samurai, being that back in the early 1900's only a small few remained, and his Sensei's were descended as such.

    I consider the style that I teach as a 'traditional' Ju-jitsu rather than the modern 'Goshin' styles. We do 'alive' training every week....but it could be we're all just gluttens from punishment!! Random attacks have always been a mainstay. Students generally get introduced to this method from Orange (6th Kyu). However, at every level, even as Dan grades, it's a requirement to slow things down to Kata form. The 2 benefits being better muscular development and increased technique assimilation. Doing a 'Sweeping Head-Hip' in slow-mo is fantastic for developing balance, as well as really annoying beginners with 'how does he do that!?'

    With regard to the original question. This has been tried before in the UK. Anyone who knows of Paul Lloyd Davis and Yawara Ryu (he used to be Prof. Rankin's student) will have heard of Knockdown Sport Budo. Paul tried to get this format noticed by the UK's IOC in an attempt to have it included in the Olympics. For those that don't know, KSBO is sort of the older brother of UK MMA, but without striking to the head, and also the origins of my friend (who Americans don't like) Michael Bisping! As Yawara Ryu was an off-shoot of Lankin-Fa, we always faired very well as grappling was part of our training, and we won alot of matches because of our 'Traditional' training.

    A point of note about Kano's Judo. He did keep strikes and kicks in there, and I believe some Judoka still practice them. The Judo that you see in competition is far removed from it's original form. Kano was a Dan grade in multiple styles of Ju-jitsu and Karate (btw Judo, Karate and Aikido have roots in Ju-jitsu, not the other way round, as someone else quoted!) and as some have rightly said, he wanted to create a style that was 'acceptable' in the modern age.

    And, on a final note.....BJJ is officially recognised as having it's roots in Judo. The techniques in BJJ are present in Traditional Ju-jitsu and weren't invented in the 1940/50's and lastly (honestly) there is no 'best' martial art. The best martial art is the art that best suits only yourself and you only lose when you don't want to carry on!

    Thanks for listening to my 1st rant guys!!

    May the Budo be with you......always!!
  3. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    6/17/2013 11:40pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Welcome to Bullshido.

    You will probably get "ripped" anyway, but then again, it's just the internet.

    You may feel like the art you practice is not Goshin Jujutsu, but the purists will disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Watson View Post
    A point of note about Kano's Judo. He did keep strikes and kicks in there, and I believe some Judoka still practice them. The Judo that you see in competition is far removed from it's original form. Kano was a Dan grade in multiple styles of Ju-jitsu and Karate (btw Judo, Karate and Aikido have roots in Ju-jitsu, not the other way round, as someone else quoted!) and as some have rightly said, he wanted to create a style that was 'acceptable' in the modern age.
    Most of us know this already. However, while I'm no Judo expert, I've seen more than one senior dan grade state that there are no kicks in Judo. I'd love to see your source for that statement. Please know that hearsay is not accepted as a legitimate source on this website.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Watson View Post
    And, on a final note.....BJJ is officially recognised as having it's roots in Judo. The techniques in BJJ are present in Traditional Ju-jitsu and weren't invented in the 1940/50's and lastly (honestly) there is no 'best' martial art. The best martial art is the art that best suits only yourself and you only lose when you don't want to carry on!
    This is also known by most here. I would say that there is a good chance that there are a few modern sportive techniques that were not present in Judo or jujutsu. The Berimbolo technique comes to mind.
  4. JohnKenner is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2013 12:53am


     Style: Boxing, Judo, Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Watson View Post
    Ok, this is my 1st post on this site, so don't rip me a new one!! I find myself a poor man against some of you guys with your knowledge. I'm a 3rd Dan in Lankin-Fa Ju-jitsu (Established by Professor William Rankin, 10th Dan).
    This guy? I don't seem to be able to find much with some basic google fu. Too bad.

    I consider the style that I teach as a 'traditional' Ju-jitsu rather than the modern 'Goshin' styles.
    Based on experience with other Koryu styles?


    We do 'alive' training every week....but it could be we're all just gluttens from punishment!! Random attacks have always been a mainstay.
    Any video of this, sounds cool.

    A point of note about Kano's Judo. He did keep strikes and kicks in there, and I believe some Judoka still practice them. The Judo that you see in competition is far removed from it's original form.
    Based on? I have some old Kodokan books, it looks pretty similiar - there have been changes, to be sure.

    As for atemi waza, I have never practiced it in a proper judo class (because we couldn't practice them at full power against a resisting opponent - one of Kano's main points in creating Judo).

    Kano was a Dan grade in multiple styles of Ju-jitsu and Karate (btw Judo, Karate and Aikido have roots in Ju-jitsu, not the other way round, as someone else quoted!) and as some have rightly said, he wanted to create a style that was 'acceptable' in the modern age.
    Well if anyone said (outside of Clavell in Shogun) that JJ came out of Judo, they're crazy.

    It is however news to me that Kano practiced Karate, I'll have to look into that. Also, the Menkyo system was in place when he was learning JJ - that was his license to teach. He instituted the Dan system in Judo (which was ripped off from Go, along with colored obi which was ripped off from physical education).
  5. JohnKenner is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2013 1:01am


     Style: Boxing, Judo, Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jnp View Post
    However, while I'm no Judo expert, I've seen more than one senior dan grade state that there are no kicks in Judo.
    My Kodokan Judo book written by Jigaro Kano and edited by Kodokan editorial committee does demonstrate kicks - sort of.

    Chapter 9 on atemi waza goes into the areas of the foot used for impact.

    Chapter 19 demonstrates some of the kicks, but from more of a "physical education" standpoint for kata.

    Striking just was never that important to Judo when compared with the moves you could do at full power against a resisting opponent.
    Last edited by JohnKenner; 6/18/2013 1:02am at . Reason: My grammar sucks.
  6. JohnKenner is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2013 1:26am


     Style: Boxing, Judo, Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Watson View Post
    With regard to the original question. This has been tried before in the UK. Anyone who knows of Paul Lloyd Davis and Yawara Ryu (he used to be Prof. Rankin's student) will have heard of Knockdown Sport Budo. Paul tried to get this format noticed by the UK's IOC in an attempt to have it included in the Olympics. For those that don't know, KSBO is sort of the older brother of UK MMA, but without striking to the head, and also the origins of my friend (who Americans don't like) Michael Bisping! As Yawara Ryu was an off-shoot of Lankin-Fa, we always faired very well as grappling was part of our training, and we won alot of matches because of our 'Traditional' training.

    Here is a video of the George Spencer of Yawara Ryu winning the KSBO Open Division



    Definitely alive fighting... although, not the best grappling. Around 4:25 you'll see a lot of arms being left across the windpipe. Admittedly I'm a BJJ noob (and I would defer to someone like JNP's - with a lot higher rank in BJJ) but it seems like this would be a prime time for a sweep or armbar.
  7. CrackFox is offline
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    You have to work the look.

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2013 2:46am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, BJJ

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKenner View Post
    Well if anyone said (outside of Clavell in Shogun) that JJ came out of Judo, they're crazy.
    "Tradiditional" jujutsu *is* mostly derived from judo. There used to be this thing (well really a family of things) called jujutsu. Judo was derived from jujutsu and became popular. The old styles of jujutsu became less popular and very difficult to find. Some guys decided to recreate the old styles, or at least what they imagined the old styles were like, and came up with the traditional jujutsu styles you find now.
  8. DCS is online now
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2013 6:19am

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKenner View Post
    This guy? I don't seem to be able to find much with some basic google fu. Too bad.
    He is talking about a different W. Rankin.

    http://redroseju-jitsu.org.uk/ProfBillRankin.html
  9. erezb is online now
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2013 7:15am


     Style: Boxing,Kickboxing K1

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My experience with jjj was bad, they rented space from us for a couple of years, we even had "mma" sparring once a month were it was open mat for some fee. The trainer, a guy my age, was already sporting a big belly, and a black belt. We were all friendly to each other, and one time knowing i had some judo asked me if i wanted to roll.
    It was always at the end of class for both of us, and remembering what it was like rolling with black belt judokas i found excuses not to for a few times..
    one day i finally said yes, i was friendly with the guy (what is the worst that can happen..i tap?). I warned him of my bad shoulder (from judo) and asked him to take it easy on me. Well, in a few seconds i found out this is not a judoka when i put him in half guard and he could not shake me off. I proceeded to submit him probably 4,5 times in something like 10 minutes. I actually pulled ideas from UFC undisputed 2009..
    The funny part was that he gave me a couple of tips on how to release his arm lock to complete an arm bar that helped.
    My wife was there, waiting for me. On the drive home i was a little giddy from submitting so many times and clearly dominating a black belt jjj...and she couldn't be bothered.. i asked her finally if she saw what i did there..with the jjj trainer. her reply was" oh i thought he is retarded, was he the trainer? "
    Yea, that was my experience with jjj. They waist too much time waving wood swords and knifes, drilling complicated drills, and not enough time actually learning how to fight. (They did spar, and roll, and were open to crosstrain, but it just wasn't focused enough imo).
    If this trainer and gym is any indication to jjj, than it is thinly spread with a myriad of techniques when classes are held only twice maybe three times a week, certainly not enough time to master grappling, striking, clinching and throwing, weapons etc.
  10. Goju - Joe is offline
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    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2013 8:07am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I had a pretty good experience with JJJ, my biggest criticism with the style was it jack of all trades master of none so while I knew and can pull off a few good Judo throws a real Judoka would beat me soundly, same with grappling and BJJ and the same with striking.

    The question is it better to be good at one particular range or OK at a few?
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