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  1. #31
    cualltaigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindz View Post
    Umm no kime no kata created in 1888 (during kano's life)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kime-no-kata
    contains all kinds of deadly you can't do in randori
    Kano refined his vision many times after his initial innovations (including his incorporation then de-emphasis on newaza and preservation of historical techniques in kata). Kime-no-kata was created what some 6 years after the Kodokan was founded?

    The major roadblock to the unification was that most martial arts masters wanted to ensure their secret life-threatening superior techniques were incorporated into judo and not be eliminated from existence. However, Jigoro Kano’s Kodokan Judo philosophy was to create a modern sport with rule and safety features integrated so that it could someday be propagated throughout the world and even become part of the Olympic Games. Jigoro Kano convinced the unyielding masters by offering kata as a means of recognizing and maintaining certain dangerous techniques, thereby preserving their secret techniques and ultimately unifying the many jujitsu clans towards modern judo.
    http://judoinfo.com/new/alphabetical...by-kenji-osugi
    And tell me, if th3 d34dly techniques of Kime no kata are so integral to Judo, why do they only form part of the syllabus for Godan and above?
    Dum spiro, spero.
    Tada gan iarracht.

  2. #32
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    Matt Phillips's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cualltaigh View Post
    ...tell me, if th3 d34dly techniques of Kime no kata are so integral to Judo, why do they only form part of the syllabus for Godan and above?
    I'm no expert, but are (all) the Kata reserved for the post Shodan grades?
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

  3. #33
    cualltaigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    I'm no expert, but are (all) the Kata reserved for the post Shodan grades?
    Yes, according to the Kodokan website. Some elements of the Nage-no-kata form part of the examination for shodan but the full kata only forms part of the syllabus for Nidan and up.
    Dum spiro, spero.
    Tada gan iarracht.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by cualltaigh View Post
    And tell me, if th3 d34dly techniques of Kime no kata are so integral to Judo,
    Did I say that? Show me where i said that.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    I'm no expert, but are (all) the Kata reserved for the post Shodan grades?
    No. While that might be the case in many organisations, the randori no kata (nage no kata and katame no kata) are required by some for advancement in the higher kyu grades. Some also require ju no kata for certain types of promotion. Some will also teach the Kodokan Goshin Jutsu at kyu grade level.

    There are some non-Kodokan kata that you see practiced at kyu level, such as Go no sen no kata and kaeshi no kata.

    You won't generally see Koshiki no kata, Itsutsu no kata and Kime no kata until higher dan grades.

    Seiryoku zenyo kokumin taiiku has fallen out of favour. Joshi goshin ho and Go no kata are extremely rare.

  6. #36
    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT supporting member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DARPAChief View Post
    Fun fact: 9th and 10th dan Judoka are actually just wearing red tape.
    Don't knock it; that red tape would eventually form the basis of the greatest double/single leg TD defense of all time.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

  7. #37
    cualltaigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindz View Post
    Did I say that? Show me where i said that.
    You didn't but you offered kime no kata as a counter to my assertion that his innovation was to discard techniques that couldn't be trained alive. And whilst I concede that the kata contain non-randoriable (sic) techniques , I would argue that they are part of the syllabus due to political concessions made by Kano to further his school rather than a part of his innovations of the martial art.

    Hence why you could conceivably train in Judo for thirty years and be a graded fourth Dan without ever having to have trained kime no kata.
    Dum spiro, spero.
    Tada gan iarracht.

  8. #38
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    I suppose you're aware that back in the day Judo 5th dan were way younger than today, they were not middle aged people who have been practising Judo for 20 or more years. Progression in Judo ranks was different back then.
    Things about Jits: How do Armbar 2.0

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by cualltaigh View Post
    I would argue that they are part of the syllabus due to political concessions made by Kano to further his school rather than a part of his innovations of the martial art.
    What makes you think so?

  10. #40
    cualltaigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    I suppose you're aware that back in the day Judo 5th dan were way younger than today, they were not middle aged people who have been practising Judo for 20 or more years. Progression in Judo ranks was different back then.
    Only anecdotally. I don't suppose you have a copy/reference for the original Kodokan syllabus handy?
    Dum spiro, spero.
    Tada gan iarracht.

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