6/20/2013 12:48pm, #101
This sequence of yours comes across as something you practise against a dummy (or a partner being, basically, a dummy).
Here's an interesting thought-experiment-with-benefits: try finding someone who is actually trained and experienced in an "alive" style (fully-resisting sparring/rolling, zero compliance, open ruleset) and trying it out.
The difference between what may be effective in theory, and what works in an actual encounter, will likely become very clear to you as a result.
6/20/2013 1:28pm, #102
Take it from someone that has a BB in all things "Goshin/Compliant/Street" Jiu Jiitsu, the techniques that your instructor claims to be "debilitating" or "incapacitating" will merely be "irritating" to any attacker that's not a complete *****.
6/20/2013 3:24pm, #103
I really wish you guys who practice what you call "JJJ" would stop calling it that, unless it's a recognized JAPANESE Koryu budo, bujutsu, part of a Sogo Bujutsu, or genadai art of either -jutsu or -do persuasion.
Also, the old thumb in the neck thing won't even faze an adrenalized opponent. Good kuzushi comes from recognizing the correct opportunity or opening (debana) for a given "technique".
And temple stomping someone who is already on the ground then doing an armbar? That's very rarely self defense, it's overkill and possibly some form of manslaughter/murder...that depends on circumstances, obviously.
And Juji Gatame is best done with the thumb of opponents hand up (away from uke front)...if you studied Judo or BJJ you would know that.
I won't argue that atemi isn't useful for creating an opening for a throw or "takedown", but unless you are very good at throwing, atemi (as a method of kuzushi) won't do you much good anyway.
One thing you find out when you go full speed and full resistance, even without atemi, is that a adrenalized resisting opponent can take a lot of dings, pokes, scratches, etc and keep on going.Falling for Judo since 1980
6/20/2013 3:54pm, #104
Just kidding... I think most practitioners are just looking for a way to distinguish it from BJJ, which is understandable. There are significant differences between the two.
I've got experience in Daito-Ryu Aikijujitsu (Kodokai if you want to get very specific) and none of those guys care that my WBJJ instructor calls our art Japanese Jujitsu.
When I tell a BJJ guy that I do "Ju Jitsu", they usually respond with "Yeah, but it's not real JJ....it's... JAPANESE!"
And yeah, thumbs up on the armbar, rookie!
You're making us JJJ guys look bad!
6/20/2013 6:20pm, #105
6/21/2013 11:46am, #106
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Ottawa (Canada)
I'd just like to confirm what's already been said many times in this thread also applies to most cities I've visited in Canada: What's labeled as traditional Japanese Jiu-Jitsu / Jujutsu / Ju-Jitsu is often neither traditional nor is it Japanese.
In most cases across Canada, what's being taught is the Can-Ryu system or an off-shoot of the Can-Ryu system. The Can-Ryu system is a hybrid system loosely based on elements of Kawaishi Jiu-Jitsu, Kodokan Judo, Chito-Ryu Karate and a variety of police/military RBSD systems.
While many of these schools now cater to people who are interested in MMA and grappling / submission fighting, their core focus and approach is street / reality-based self-defense.
And while it's a recent invention (relatively speaking) that was developed in Canada, the fact that Can-Ryu programs and schools frame everything within a context inspired by traditional Japanese martial arts (gis, belts, bowing, Japanese terminology, etc.) is probably why people refer to it as TJJJ.
6/21/2013 1:43pm, #107
What about just plain "jits"?
From that general cognomen, specific terms--from Daito Ryu to BJJ to, um, Can Ryu--can be designated to guide discussions regarding anything from lineage to relative effectiveness or lack thereof.
6/21/2013 1:58pm, #108
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Ottawa (Canada)
I think that things are going to inevitably get even messier because of the threatened status of Olympic wrestling and the fact that so many wrestling organizations (EX: FILA) organize and standardize grappling events; we're talking about no-gi *AND* gi here.
Let that sink in for a moment . . . the wrestling establishment, much of which does not have formal links with or lineage in the Japanese martial arts, is organizing events in which the participants will essentially be engaging in jiu-jitsu while wearing gi tops and unranked gi belts.
It's certainly not unheard of but you have to wonder if "jiu-jitsu" will really mean anything after a certain point.
6/21/2013 2:02pm, #109
6/21/2013 7:37pm, #110