silat vs wing chun

[WoodyCorpus]

Silat guy sure did need to adjust his pants a lot.


I've watched a whole lot of silat demos, and I've never seen a guillotine choke from the guard in one of them.

A demo does not represent an entire style curriculum. Silat, as a style ( from the information I remember while looking for some extra training), does incorporate grappling and chokes. And in the event that this technique ( I'm no expert by far) is not part of the Pencak Silat curriculum a fighter can opt to use a choke from any position if he's willing to take the risk, indifferent of whether or not it is by the book according to the style he or she trained in. Fighters fight the fight, not the respective styles they train in.

The fact is that I disagree that a move this basic is the sole prerogative of BJJ as a style. It has probably been around for millenia, well before most known or unknown styles emerged.

[Abue]

meh.

[MuayThaiBri67]

Way to make a point about Silat by using a reference to TKD... Many grappling styles use chokes, not just BJJ.

Really? Because I have a couple good friends that are Silat practitioners, and side train in BJJ & Wrstling because they found their art lacked any practical grappling. Their words not mine. So tell us Woody when did Silat start using triangle and guillotine chokes?

[MuayThaiBri67]

@MuayThaiBri67: Is there a torrent for that?

Don't know I just pulled it off google, and pasted the http address. I thought it was a nice little joke, but looks like Woody took it a little to serious. Which of course makes it even more all the funnier.

[Permalost]

The fact is that I disagree that a move this basic is the sole prerogative of BJJ as a style. It has probably been around for millenia, well before most known or unknown styles emerged.

I won't argue this, as I chose my words carefully earlier.

[jnp]

That's a guillotine from the guard. That does not mean he learned it from BJJ however, but I've never seen guard work in a martial art that wasn't comprised of at least 50% grappling. Arts like Judo, SOMBO, CACC and of course, BJJ.

I'm not exactly an authority on the matter though. Is there guard work in Kempo or Silat?

[Permalost]

Is there guard work in Kempo or Silat?

Here's former Bully Clyde showing his kempo guard work:


So...not really.

[WoodyCorpus]

Really? Because I have a couple good friends that are Silat practitioners, and side train in BJJ & Wrstling because they found their art lacked any practical grappling. Their words not mine. So tell us Woody when did Silat start using triangle and guillotine chokes?

I do believe you failed to read the part of this thread where I mentioned that I am no expert by far... And that your main fail was to make a point about Silat by using a TKD reference. By your own words you have second hand knowledge of Silat... Which makes your reference even weirder to me. I have no operational knowledge of Silat, I willingly admit, but to diss a style by using another style that has been ridiculed as being unidimensional on this site on numerous occasions is just a cheap shot, and besides the point. If you'd just used visual proof that Silat grappling was little more than LARPing I wouldn't even have commented. How it stands now, though, is the simple fact that you ridicule by associating without further comments or nuance. Just saying. No hard feelings.

I'm not exactly an authority on the matter though. Is there guard work in Kempo or Silat?

Neither am I. I'm just an avid practioner and observator of all styles, when possible. I am, after all, just a yellow grade in American Kenpo with little over one year of experience in that style. As far as I know there is no decisive ground work in AK, as most self defense techniques focus on afflicting pain on the opponent in a standing or dominant ground / ground and pound setting ( ie. Dance of Death). Just like in The Chun, the goal is to get the opponent down before ne waza. Our sifu has a grade in Qin Na ( or Chin Na, depending on the translation) and he often uses rolling as a warm up ex, learning some basic moves concerning guard and joint locks. When I did Judo, though (again, just a green belt) I absolutely enjoyed ne waza and I feel that it's just wrong to aproach the groundgame in such light fashion. I often dominate other club members using kata gatame, which I learned in my second Judo lesson so many years ago, and they have no defense against it.
So no, traditional American Kenpo ( to my rather limited knowledge) has no groundgame or chokes as such. I have no operational knowledge of Silat, so I don't know anything about it besides what I have read on the web or seen on Youtube. To be quite frank, I do plan on training in BJJ on fridays once my broken left hand is healed, because I like the groundgame so much. I like Kenpo for hand / foot combo's, but I would love to cross train in BJJ and Doce Pares Eskrima with Kenpo eventually once I feel I have sufficient knowledge of movement and such... It is the fighter, in the end, that makes the difference... Not his style. And I'm only just on my way.

[WoodyCorpus]

Here's former Bully Clyde showing his kempo guard work:

So...not really.

Query: From what I've read on the old Bullshido threads so far this guy could hold his own both standing an don the ground. I this not so?

[Rzero]

@MuayThaiBri67: TKD-based grappling just sounds so bizar. Would be interested to see that go against WC ground work :)

@WoodyCorpus: Dont take it so serious bro.