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  1. Petter is offline

    12th level logic wielder

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    Posted On:
    3/05/2012 1:22am


     Style: BJJ, judo, rapier

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When exactly did anyone in this thread insult this Morton guy, anyway? If it happened I must have missed it.
    [ petterhaggholm.net | blog | essays ]
    [ self defence: general thoughts | bjj: “don’t go to the ground”? ]
    “The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data.”
  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/05/2012 1:23am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Illegitimate school ranking equals insult in his eyes.
  3. Pineapple is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/05/2012 3:14am


     Style: MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    What you need to do is STFU go back to the legit Judo club and let the bullshit you've been fed by the Morton jokers be ipponed out of you.
    Theres one of several insults by Judoka.

    Eitherway, Im tired of this conversation. Yet I understand where you guys are coming from.
  4. Pineapple is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/05/2012 3:29am


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wing-Kwan-Fu View Post
    As cualltaigh said, we're just trying to get a handle on how you train. We are not trying to "ignorantly" denigrate your personal throwing technique (we haven't seen it!), nor to insult Peter Morton. He may well be as decorated as the school page describes (btw most of those qualifications meant nothing to me, I don't know what's worth what down there), he may well be an excellent fighter and he furthermore might be a talented teacher--but the truth of all of these statements would not prove that his school's training methods are sound. Only the accomplishments of his students could prove that.

    To reiterate, because this is important: good competitors can become beloved martial arts trainers and still teach ineffectively. The gold standard proof of a trainer's competency is the competition results of his students, which is unavailable in this case. So we want to know, not about his qualifications, but about stuff like this:



    I think you mean the throwing training is always done in predetermined sequences? (I wasn't clear on your description.) Well, that means (to us, although we'd argue it is objective fact) that you're missing the most important part of throwing training, randori. That's a flaw. It's also a flaw, to me, that most of your throwing training is of the self-defense type you described--it sounds like the least technically sound section of your training.

    But...just because we think your school is flawed doesn't mean we're trying to be mean! Hell, I'll admit my school is flawed: we do hard randori, but not so often except before competitions, and we don't learn throwing technique frequently or robustly enough for my taste. We don't do much ukemi: we practice rolls but most people don't practice falls. I sometimes get funny looks for falling hard on my back while everyone else squats slowly down to practice backwards rolls, and I've seen people get away with doing even the rolls very, very wrong without correction. And we only have two thai pads so far! And no cage yet, nor a squat rack...but at least I'm honest about the reality of where I train. I think I'll write a review...

    Back on topic, would you describe your ground grappling training as similar to sport BJJ? Or how would you describe it?
    So i'm not ignoring your post.
    My school has plenty of flaws, none of them really affect me though. I'm not sure how some students would go with randori since we don't do much of it, yet we have learnt lots of things for it. We just find we are busy with other things, honestly I don't think my instructors would mind if we did a few sessions of it. We started stretching at the end of class now that someone mentioned it (I always wondered why we didnt, no one really thought to lol).

    For my grappling, when we train I guess its similar to BJJ. Its lierally, start on knees make opponent submit or hold them on the ground long enough for them to admit they can't get out. We do it a fair amount, more so then other small workouts. I'm not to sure whats legal though for comps, when I did Judo as well as PM I kept being told off for using illegal moves, like unusual chokes.

    Example of one choke, knee on chest, pull head toward there chest. I felt kinda bad cause I hurt his neck. Funny enough I've never used the technique or ehard of it since, can't even remember when I learnt it.

    Anyway
  5. Wing-Kwan-Fu is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/05/2012 3:46am


     Style: Standup, Ground-fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Pineapple View Post
    My school has plenty of flaws, none of them really affect me though...

    ...honestly I don't think my instructors would mind if we did a few sessions of [randori]...
    ...that's not as good as them making you do randori always, and I can't see how such flaws wouldn't affect you, but I think we've chased this tail long enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pineapple View Post
    Example of one choke, knee on chest, pull head toward there chest. I felt kinda bad cause I hurt his neck.
    Yup, that's a neck crank, illegal as far as I know in Judo (which I don't).

    It seems like judo might be the weaker side of your gym, so I understand judoka_uk's indignation ("Judo", unlike "jiujitsu", refers to ONE specific art and shouldn't be missaplied), but the gym mostly sounds good and I hope you come around to look at Martial Arts from our general perspective as time goes on. Try to find some grappling tournaments to compete in to get some perspective and be sure about things.

    SMILEY FACE ICON, OUT
  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/05/2012 9:52am

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     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Pineapple View Post
    Theres one of several insults by Judoka.
    Okay:
    This is an insult:
    Like I said, our school is very self defence based, if we train for tournaments it won't be the same, we crave knowledge and new ideas.
    This is an insult:
    in Peter Morton Academy we learn tricks for selfdefence, things illegal in competition.
    This is an insult:
    I feel like I'm repeating myself. I've been to several Judo clubs, I knowwhat works and doesnt when it comes to learning throws.
    This is an insult:
    “Can you throw someone who expects the throw and isresisting” then of course not

    Remember, you are the one that said calling your gym illegitimate was an insult. Well saying the others don't train for self defense, that PM has the real, how techniques do/don't work, and being a beginner telling an instructor he doesn't know what he is talking about is an insult.

    Everyone waited until you explained your rank to insult you in turn. Harden the **** up or stop posting. Your whining is getting ridiculous.

    I'm not sure how some students would go with randori since we don't do much of it, yet we have learnt lots of things for it. We just find we are busy with other things, honestly I don't think my instructors would mind if we did a few sessions of it.
    ....and you wonder why judo_uk is being insulting. Your above quote says it all for me.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 3/05/2012 9:57am at .
  7. 50 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/05/2012 9:35pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not exactly qualified to judge any australian dojos, but a place that advertises Karate Judo AND Jiu-Jitsu sounds pretty suspicious. Isn't Judo basically JJJ with no striking? Why advertise both when you can just say JJJ?
  8. The Cap is offline
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    ORNYTHORINQUE!... BOIT-SANS-SOIF!... BACHI-BOUZOUK!

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    Posted On:
    3/06/2012 1:10am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 50 View Post
    I'm not exactly qualified to judge any australian dojos, but a place that advertises Karate Judo AND Jiu-Jitsu sounds pretty suspicious. Isn't Judo basically JJJ with no striking? Why advertise both when you can just say JJJ?
    No

    No, Noo. Nope.

    Judo is an internationally regulated competitive martial art and olympic sport. You don't get into the olympics practising JJJ, heck you might not compete at all. As a judoka of rank at any licensed club you hold an internationally recognized symbol of achievement in live practice. A JJJ belt is nice but can be of dubious origin/can be harder to verify, and may very well just be a marker of repeated dead (non-alive) practices.
  9. 50 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/06/2012 8:41pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Cap View Post
    No

    No, Noo. Nope.

    Judo is an internationally regulated competitive martial art and olympic sport. You don't get into the olympics practising JJJ, heck you might not compete at all. As a judoka of rank at any licensed club you hold an internationally recognized symbol of achievement in live practice. A JJJ belt is nice but can be of dubious origin/can be harder to verify, and may very well just be a marker of repeated dead (non-alive) practices.
    Is it like Aikido? We have an Aikido dojo in town, and it looks like glorified dancing. I think JJJ is an olympic sport so wouldn't that keep it more legit?
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/06/2012 8:56pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 50 View Post
    Is it like Aikido? We have an Aikido dojo in town, and it looks like glorified dancing. I think JJJ is an olympic sport so wouldn't that keep it more legit?
    So how long have you done Judo?
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