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  1. cualltaigh is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/29/2012 7:49pm


     Style: BJJ, MMA, JJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Interesting one this. Does anyone believe that a government department filled with people dedicated to 'combating inequality of women in the workplace' doesn't have a vested interest in showing that there's inequality in the workplace and continuing to show their's inequality in the workplace regardless of the true state of affairs.

    If your salary, mortgage repayments, car repayments and annual holiday depends on there being inequality in the workplace. You can sure as hell bet you're going to do a study that finds there's some inequality there, because the day you stop finding inequality is the day you are out of a job.
    You gotta love the language they use to describe it too. 9% of the gender pay gap is not because, according to their own data, that men work longer hours than women. No, it must be because women don't have the same access to overtime. Right.

    Also the balance of 16.7% of the gender pay gap is unexplainable and can therefore only be attributed to discrimination. Despite not taking into account other pearls of their own data such as, on average, men having over three years more industry experience than their female counterparts and having an average tenure of over 1.5 years longer. Nor any appreciable account of paid maternity leave which is a benefit available only to women.

    Mind you I only learnt statistics from one of Australia's leading economic institutions, what would I know compared to public servant desk jockey whose job, like you say, is dependant on the results.

    Is there a gender pay disparity? Absolutely. Is it as wide as commonly reported? Nope.
    Last edited by cualltaigh; 2/29/2012 8:03pm at . Reason: lies, damn lies and statistics!
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  2. ADM is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/29/2012 7:52pm


     Style: Kyokushin Karate / BJJ

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    HH: From the link you gave me, I'll quote the first part that came out:

    "Data from the Average Weekly Earnings Survey show that
    between 1990 and 2009, the gender wage gap remained within a narrow range of between
    15 and 17 per cent. Indeed over the last four years the gap has steadily increased within
    this range from a low of 15.1 per cent in February 2005 to 17.0 per cent in February 2009"


    I mean are you fucking serious? You do realise this takes into considersation EVERYONES wage. So if Joe Black living in high rise Sydney takes in 6 billion dollars this year, THAT counts.

    And after all that ... it's 17%.

    Does it also take into consideration that usually the primary care giver when 2 people start a family is the wife / woman ? Even though in Australia we have amazing maternity leave, I can say from first hand experience that my wife at the moment is taking in 50% less than what she did at her work (where she gets paid exactly the same as the other males).

    This is 2012 mate, having worked consistently for a while now in IT I've never come across first hand a job where a woman was treated differently or paid less because she was a woman.

    Which is what Battlefields is trying to tell you. Is there a wage gap? Yes, the reasons for it are probably too varied for any of us to truly understand.

    Maybe in America things aren't like that, but I can't comment since neither I or Battlefields work / live there.
  3. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/29/2012 8:03pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by cualltaigh View Post
    Is there a gender pay disparity? Absolutely. Is it as wide as commonly reported? Nope.
    The problem I have is I have yet to see any statistics from people who don't have a vested interest in demonstrating inequality. Communist unions, left wing academics and equalities industry apparatchik's statistics are ten a penny. However, statistics from people who don't have vested interests I've yet to come across, maybe they exist, I don't know.

    What I do know is that there are lots of male founders and CEOs of SMEs who have had female employees they valued immensely and who brought a lot to their business who they lost to pregnancy.

    My dad runs an SME and over the last decade he's lost several women who he would have liked to make up to partner level, to pregnancy. They get pregnant, never come back and he loses a great employee and a very valuable business asset and so has to promote the lesser qualified man because he's still an employee.

    Everyone who runs a business knows this and I find it difficult to believe that, again self-interest, does come into play and they look at a female employee as a much riskier investment than a male employee.

    If I as an SME owner sink 100,000 of skill, training and experience into this female employee, will I get a return on my investment over the next ten years or will I only get 3 years ROI before she has a child and never comes back? In contrast I have a less able male employee who I can be much more certain I will get 10 years ROI out of and they won't get pregnant and leave?

    Most SME heads do the calculation come to the obvious and inevitable conclusion that women are the riskier asset class and go forward accordingly. Its certainly an issue, but not something I can see anything being done about until we either spread childbrith across both genders or somehow institute some kind of draconian contract whereby women promise not to get pregnant for X period of time in return for better employment benefits.
  4. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/29/2012 8:10pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADM View Post
    I mean are you fucking serious? You do realise this takes into considersation EVERYONES wage. So if Joe Black living in high rise Sydney takes in 6 billion dollars this year, THAT counts.
    Australia's richest person is a woman - Gina Rinehart. I wonder what the pay gap is between her and her counterpart at number 2.
  5. cualltaigh is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/29/2012 8:11pm


     Style: BJJ, MMA, JJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Most SME heads do the calculation come to the obvious and inevitable conclusion that women are the riskier asset class and go forward accordingly. Its certainly an issue, but not something I can see anything being done about until we either spread childbrith across both genders or somehow institute some kind of draconian contract whereby women promise not to get pregnant for X period of time in return for better employment benefits.
    It's not just SME's, large corporates have figured this out to. It is one of the valid contributors to the actual gender pay gap and the so called 'glass ceiling'. I've seen it in action first hand.
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  6. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/29/2012 8:14pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by cualltaigh View Post
    It's not just SME's, large corporates have figured this out to. It is one of the valid contributors to the actual gender pay gap and the so called 'glass ceiling'. I've seen it in action first hand.
    Sure, absolutely, but if we're chalking up working age population employed by SMEs vs working age population employed by big corporations. Then the vast majority of the working population is employed by an SME not a big corporation. Hence they will have a major impact on any nationwide wage stats.
  7. cualltaigh is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/29/2012 8:17pm


     Style: BJJ, MMA, JJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Sure, absolutely, but if we're chalking up working age population employed by SMEs vs working age population employed by big corporations. Then the vast majority of the working population is employed by an SME not a big corporation. Hence they will have a major impact on any nationwide wage stats.
    Not if you want to skew the results and overrepresent the largest pay disparities.
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  8. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/29/2012 8:19pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by cualltaigh View Post
    Not if you want to skew the results and overrepresent the largest pay disparities.
    Lol, true and we return to the vested interest of the equalities industry.

    On this topic aren't most salary decisions made on the basis of HR evaluations and isn't HR a majority female profession...
  9. ADM is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/29/2012 8:20pm


     Style: Kyokushin Karate / BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Australia's richest person is a woman - Gina Rinehart. I wonder what the pay gap is between her and her counterpart at number 2.
    Wasn't this announced last year? That study I listed went to 2009.
  10. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/29/2012 8:24pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADM View Post
    Wasn't this announced last year? That study I listed went to 2009.
    Still an interesting question, though, no?

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