Weights training and martial arts

**HereBeADragon** · Posted On: 3/02/2012 4:47pm

He wanted something to supplament martial arts training, specifically something to build strength. I set him up with how I would go about that. It is a program meant to work the body as a whole not as seperate muscle groups. I would not stay with it indefinitely, no program should be done forever, but it will begin filling in strength deficits and give him a platform to build from. Its meant to be done in a short amount of time and not leaving him unduely sore or tired out for the rest of his martial arts training and I don't care if its fun its training. I don't find curls and rows and endless body part specific programs fun either. I find them bloody tedious and to be a massive time waster that rarely builds useful strength and often leads to over training and muscle pulls.

Now if after a certain amount of time and training he does find specific strength deficits I may suggest some isolation exercises but only until he is capable of performing more complex and useful whole body movements. If he cannot for example perform pull ups than I would think he might mention that at some point in which case I would give him some alternative ideas, none of which involve a lat pull down machine.

**elipson** · Posted On: 3/02/2012 6:56pm

If he cannot for example perform pull ups than I would think he might mention that at some point in which case I would give him some alternative ideas, none of which involve a lat pull down machine.

Feel free to mention them.

Your routine doesn't work the chest in any way.

Simple routines are good, and going for compound exercises are much more productive than isolation exercises, but you've gone a little too simple.

**HereBeADragon** · Posted On: 3/02/2012 7:08pm

The routine does not emphasize the chest it does however involve it. You are going by the body part body building paradigm. I do not prescribe to that paradigm in training. If you really wanted to add a bench press to the routine you could but its not an exercise that I am a fan of. Most people over work the bench press and usually do it wrong. It also has little carry over into combat sports. If I was going to do anything along a front press I'd probably go with something like the 1/4 Getup. Hell you could do push ups if you wanted to.

**mrh80** · Posted On: 3/04/2012 1:09am

Originally Posted by elipson

who says "mightn't"?

Personally I don't like military lifts due to shoulder problems I have, but to each his own. If you have past injuries to your rotator cuff or shoulder impingement, find something else other than overhead lifts.

Personally I think your routine should go something like:

monday:

Bench press 3x6 rep max
1 or 2 shoulder exercises
1 or 2 tricep exercises

Friday:
Chins ups, 3 sets working your way up to 10 reps each set. When you hit 10 GOOD reps for all three sets, either add weight or start moving your hands further apart to start working your lats, working out to a pull up. (youtube this if it didn't make sense).
Seated rows, 3x8rm
Lat pulls down, 3x8rm
Deadliftm, 3x6rm (If you have never done deadlifts before, research them on youtube and start with a lower weight until your form improves)

A bench press is likely to irritate a shoulder injury more than overhead pressing; in fact proper overhead pressing can actually rehab a bad shoulder. Why add weight after 10 reps? The focus is on strength better to focus on lower reps, i.e. 3-5. Also the idea to learn of youtube is horrible advice for a beginner.

**mrh80** · Posted On: 3/04/2012 1:15am

Originally Posted by elipson

Stronger pecs are kind of helpful for martial arts.

Also, many people have trouble doing a full pull up because of under strengthed lats. Lat pull downs will help him work up to actually doing pull ups for reps. Pull ups also don't work the rhomboids as much as a seated row. Chin-ups plus these two exercises will help him achieve pull-ups while preventing imbalances from internal rotation. (chin-ups are with your hands close together with thumbs facing in or nuetral, while pull-ups are with hands wide apart and palms facing away from you). He could also replace lat-pulls with barbell rows.

While I partially agree with this statement, i partially disagree with it also. Some exercises like the traps are difficult to work with combound exercises because other muscles take over, like military press and bench press. If he wants to get the most out of his workout he should actually spend time on the muscles. Adding a few muscles specific movements after doing compound movements is only going to help his smaller muscles. Especially seeing as they don't respond well to the low rep range that you would be using.

Your 4 exercise routine is leaving pretty big imbalances. You are ignoring the chest muscles, under-working the tricep, biceps and rhomboids, and assuming he can do a full pull-up already. Not to mention its boring.

This post is pretty bad with some fact mixed in with horrible advice.

**ferrum** · Posted On: 3/04/2012 1:39am

Still pondering the advice here.

Guess I mainly want a really strong "core" (i.e., everything excluding head, neck, arms and legs), in particular "posterior chain" I think they call it, and also decently strong legs and arms. Enough to get by. Actually, a strong neck wouldn't hurt either.

But then, a good amount of muscle mass all over could be advantageous, anyway, for a whole lot of reasons. Remember, not trying to make weight for competitions, or whatever.

I like the sound of turkish getups, pullups and deadlifts. Everything else, I'm not totally sure. Guess I'll see what else I can dig up from wherever.

Yeah, I can do a few pullups at this stage.

I don't care if routines are "boring" - I'm doing this for strength, not entertainment, ffs.

And "thrice" follows "once" and "twice", children! Try reading something, once in a while.

**Sang** · Posted On: 3/04/2012 3:12am

You should have no problem doing any of the popular weight programs (stronglifts, starting strength) out there when you are only training MA three times a week. Start off twice a week with weights and once your body starts getting used to it add in the third day.

Most important thing is to make sure you eat a ridiculous amount of good food. Without this you won't grow and you won't perform on the MA days. It is costing me $200 a week in food to go up 1 pound of body weight each week on a similar regime.

**elipson** · Posted On: 3/04/2012 3:49am

Originally Posted by mrh80

A bench press is likely to irritate a shoulder injury more than overhead pressing; in fact proper overhead pressing can actually rehab a bad shoulder. Why add weight after 10 reps? The focus is on strength better to focus on lower reps, i.e. 3-5. Also the idea to learn of youtube is horrible advice for a beginner.

The youtube advice was as opposed to just doing it with NO instruction whatsoever. But if you want this guy to just fly at it without any idea how to do a proper deadlift, then who am I to say otherwise?

Also re: shoulder problems,
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...overhead_press

I'm not saying overhead press is necessarily bad, just that they may not be the best idea for everyone and can cause complications.

***battlefields*** · Posted On: 3/04/2012 5:00am

I'm currently changing my program due to adding bjj back in the mix. I was doing stronglifts 5x5 but I am in need of building some muscle mass at the moment. I'm interested in how anyone could say that bench press has little application to martial arts, I'm assuming it is referring to stand up arts.

I was a week out of stronglifts when I started bjj, so I did two days out of the week at bjj, this week I will probably do the one day (today) at the gym with three exercises (squat, bench, military press) and do two lessons bjj, next weekend do three or four exercises (same as above, or replace with deadlift and or row) but go back on wednesday for three or four exercises between tues and thurs bjj training. MAYBE go up to three days a week weights and two a week bjj, but I would rather do three days a week bjj and two days weights with less gains on the metal and more gains in technique.

***battlefields*** · Posted On: 3/04/2012 5:01am

I'm currently changing my program due to adding bjj back in the mix. I was doing stronglifts 5x5 but I am in need of building some muscle mass at the moment. I'm interested in how anyone could say that bench press has little application to martial arts, I'm assuming it is referring to stand up arts.

I was a week out of stronglifts when I started bjj, so I did two days out of the week at bjj, this week I will probably do the one day (today) at the gym with three exercises (squat, bench, military press) and do two lessons bjj, next weekend do three or four exercises (same as above, or replace with deadlift and or row) but go back on wednesday for three or four exercises between tues and thurs bjj training. MAYBE go up to three days a week weights and two a week bjj, but I would rather do three days a week bjj and two days weights with less gains on the metal and more gains in technique.