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  1. Ignorami is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/19/2012 9:26am


     Style: Aikido / FMA / Krotty

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Douche_Supreme View Post

    I have more if you don't believe me.
    Yes please!

    Starting with sources for points 1-8 please.

    Actually, don't bother with number 3. That one was retarded enough.


    When life gives you lemons... BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!

    "what's the best thing about aikido then?"
    "To be defeated by your enemies, to be driven by them from the field of battle, and to hear the lamentations of your women." ermghoti
  2. Sang is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/19/2012 9:38am


     Style: MMA, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Actually number 3 is spot on.
    "Boxing is the art of hitting an opponent from the furthest distance away, exposing the least amount of your body while getting into position to punch with maximum leverage and not getting hit."
    Kenny Weldon
  3. Douche_Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2012 9:42am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Films can have a strong and immediate impact — Super Size Me certainly did, despite the rather large helping of bullshido it served up — but they’re no substitute for reading.

    Good Calories, Bad Calories, Fats, Carbs and the Controversial Science of Diet and Health.
    By Gary Taubes.


    Wheat Belly. Lose The Wheat, Lose the Weight and find your path back to health.
    By William Davis


    Primal Body, Primal Mind
    by Nora T. Gedgaudas

    Hell if you are a Non Reader. (I'm sorry for your moronic ass then) Watch the movie "Fathead" In fact watch "Fathead anyway.
  4. Ignorami is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/19/2012 10:00am


     Style: Aikido / FMA / Krotty

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sang View Post
    Actually number 3 is spot on.
    Not as a piece of evidence for his argument it wasn't.

    1. Indians don't eat meat =/= Indians don't eat high levels of saturated fat

    2. Not all heart attacks are caused by saturated fat =/= saturated fat doesn't cause heart attacks


    When life gives you lemons... BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!

    "what's the best thing about aikido then?"
    "To be defeated by your enemies, to be driven by them from the field of battle, and to hear the lamentations of your women." ermghoti
  5. Douche_Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2012 11:11am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ignorami View Post
    Yes please!

    Starting with sources for points 1-8 please.

    Actually, don't bother with number 3. That one was retarded enough.
    Check yerself before you wreck yerself guy. You want sources. Here ya go.

    Point 1. : http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...61341020100204

    Point 2. : http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/fats5.php
    also http://doctorgenao.com/2011/04/03/da...egetable-oils/
    and here http://chriskresser.com/heartdisease
    or here http://www.westonaprice.org/know-you...f-america#rise
    which has the following info:
    [I] MI ( myocardial infarction or heart attack for the Special Ed. folks) was almost nonexistent in 1910 and caused no more than three thousand deaths per year in 1930. By 1960, there were at least 500,000 MI deaths per year in the US. The other was a dietary change. Since the early part of the century, when the Department of Agriculture had begun to keep track of food "disappearance" data—the amount of various foods going into the food supply—a number of researchers had noticed a change in the kind of fats Americans were eating. Butter consumption was declining while the use of vegetable oils, especially oils that had been hardened to resemble butter by a process called hydrogenation, was increasing—dramatically increasing. By 1950 butter consumption had dropped from eighteen pounds per person per year to just over ten. Margarine filled in the gap, rising from about two pounds per person at the turn of the century to about eight. Consumption of vegetable shortening—used in crackers and baked goods—remained relatively steady at about twelve pounds per person per year but vegetable oil consumption had more than tripled—from just under three pounds per person per year to more than ten.
    [/I]

    or this one: http://www.healthcentral.com/diabete...ined-vegetable
    which I have been so kind as to glean the following info from for you.

    The consumption of vegetable oils created through chemical extraction processes is linked to widespread inflammation within the body, elevated blood triglycerides, and an impaired insulin response. These oils have been linked to diabetes, cancer and heart disease in multiple studies.

    The Process of Extracting Vegetable Oil

    The process of extracting vegetable oil from oil seeds is not for the squeamish. Take a look at the steps and decide for yourself if this is a "food" you want to consume.

    Oil seeds such as soybean, rapeseed, cotton, sunflower are gathered. Most of these seeds are from plants that have been genetically engineered to resist the huge amounts of pesticides applied to them.

    The seeds are husked and cleaned of dirt and dust, then crushed. The crushed seeds are then heated to temperatures between 110 degrees and 180 degrees in a steam bath to start the oil extraction process. The seeds are put through a high volume press which uses high heat and friction to press the oil from the seed pulp. The seed pulp and oil are then put through a hexane solvent bath and steamed again to squeeze out more oil.

    Hexane is produced by the refining of crude petroleum oil. It is a mild anesthetic. Inhalation of high concentrations produces first a state of mild euphoria, followed by sleepiness with headaches and nausea.

    Now the seed/oil mixture is put through a centrifuge and phosphate is added to begin the separation of the oil and seed residues. After solvent extraction, the crude oil is separated and the solvent is evaporated and recovered. The seed pulp residues are conditioned and reprocessed to make by-products such as animal feed.
    vegetable oils processed with SOLVENTS!!! for God's sake. Ya know what else they process with solvents Cocaine and Meth! And those are sooooo good for you, right?


    ya want more, just ask, or better yet, research it yerself. now on to number 3 which you say is retarded. Well here you go proof that YOU are in fact retarded and need to pull you foot out of your mouth.

    3. :"Heart disease is the single largest cause of death in India with heart attacks being accountable for one third of all deaths caused by heart diseases." Source: http://www.india.gov.in/
    FROM THEIR OWN GOVT!!! mmmm does that toe cheese taste good? Careful, don't cut your tongue on that hangnail.
    Here's another reference for you about heart disease in India.
    http://www.manbir-online.com/cardiac/cad-indian.htm

    4.: Fathead the Movie. I really don't feel like sitting here researching every point I made when I know that you have a perfectly good computer and can do it yourself if you don't believe me. Watch the movie. There are interviews with doctors and Tom Naughton actually does the 30 day fast food challenge, albeit smartly, like any rational adult would, and comes out HEALTHIER!

    5. http://adam.about.net/reports/Epilepsy.htm - The Ketogenic Diet - The standard theory is that burning fat instead of carbohydrates causes an increase in ketones. Excess ketones (called ketosis) appears to alter certain amino acids in the brain and to increase levels of the neurotransmitter gamma aminobutyric acid (GABA), which helps prevent nerve cells from over-firing.
    Typical Ketogenic Diet. (This diet must be professionally monitored! Parents can endanger their children if they try the program on their own without consulting a doctor or trained health expert.) The child fasts for the first 1 - 2 days, then the diet is gradually introduced. The regimen uses small amounts of carbohydrates and large amounts of fats (up to 90%) Researchers are also investigating the Atkins diet, a popular weight-loss diet that has similar effects but is less restrictive than the ketogenic diet. Early results indicate that it might be helpful for some young people. Another alternative is a low glycemic index diet, which contains even fewer carbohydrates than the Atkins diet. Still, parents should not put their children on these diets without support from a doctor.


    6. http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/nutrition/sugar.htm
    http://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/200...ed-cancer-risk
    http://www.cancerresearchinformation...show-the-link/

    This can also apply to #7:Saturated fats predominate principally in animal fats, though palm and coconut oils are noted plant sources. Monounsaturated fats abound in nuts, avocadoes, olive oil, and some animal fats (especially lard). Polyunsaturated fats mostly make up vegetable oils, but significant amounts are found in fish oils and chicken skin.

    It should be noted here that the more a fat is saturated, the more stable it is chemically. Saturated and monounsaturated fats do not go rancid easily if stored properly. Likewise, these fats are more stable under heat, making them ideal for cooking. Polyunsaturated fats, however, especially those of vegetable origin, are not as stable and go rancid more quickly, even in the body. Rancid oils breed one thing: cancer-causing and tissue damaging free radicals. While some polyunsaturated fats are needed by the body, the so-called essential fatty acids (EFAs), they should not exceed about 5% of your total caloric intake due to this problem.1

    The two EFAs are linolenic (an omega 3 fatty acid) and linoleic (an omega 6 fatty acid). The "3" and "6" indicates where the first double bond occurs in the fatty acid molecule. For example, in an omega-3 fatty acid, the first double bond occurs at the third carbon atom. The body takes the EFAs and creates other omega-3 and 6 fatty acids and hormone-like substances called prostaglandins to carry out a host of metabolic functions. Like vitamins and minerals, EFAs must be derived from our food. In times past, humans consumed a balance of linolenic and other omega 3 fatty acids (found principally in cold water fish, walnuts, eggs, flax oil, dark green leafy vegetables, cod liver oil, and some whole grains) and linoleic and other omega 6 fatty acids (found principally in vegetables), and this is as it should be as both are equally important. When there is an overabundance of linoleic acid in the diet, however, our body's ability to absorb and utilize linolenic acid is inhibited.2 This causes a host of undesirable reactions including sexual and immune dysfunction, and increased cancer risk.3 The Western world has greatly increased its linoleic acid intake due to its higher use of vegetable oils over the past 60 years.4 Not surprisingly, cancer (and heart disease) rates have skyrocketed.

    : http://www.townsendletter.com/June_2...onfats0602.htm
    There is another type of "fatty acid” that is produced during chemical processing called a trans-fatty acid (TFA). These are unnatural fats that our bodies cannot utilize properly due to their bizarre chemical structure. In a TFA, a liquid vegetable oil has been made solid by forcing hydrogen atoms into it with the help of a nickel catalyst. In terms of visual appearance, a hydrogenated fat looks like a saturated one since both are solid at room temperature. On a molecular level, however, the TFA is quite different, making it unusable by the body. These fake fats are found in margarine, "vegetable oil spreads,” vegetable shortening, and refined canola oil. It is trans-fatty acid, as opposed to saturated fatty acid, consumption that is strongly correlated with cancer, cardiovascular disease, and other diseases.

    8. : Taken from bodybuilding.com: SATURATED FATS
    I know what you are thinking, these are bad also. Well, you are right and wrong. Saturated fats are found in animal products including beef, pork, lamb, milk, cheese and eggs. It is true that these fats can cause health problems when taken in excess, especially for those who are not active. These fats are easily turned into increased body fat, when eaten latter in the day. They can raise insulin levels and increase your chances of insulin resistance. They also increase your chance for getting arteriosclerosis and heart disease. So, where are the benefits? A major benefit of saturated fats is that they are essential when trying to gain muscle mass. Ask any serious bodybuilder or powerlifter how much mass they packed on the last time they were on a low fat diet. Even the powerlifters and bodybuilders of yesteryear knew that to pack on some serious strength and size they had to consume saturated fats. Saturated fat and cholesterol also have a direct association with testosterone production. Increased testosterone equals bigger and stronger muscles and decreased recovery time. Even though we have to limit our intake of these fats, it doesn't mean that powerlifters should try to avoid them at all costs, unless they have a medical condition.

    MONOUNSATURATED FATS
    I know, there seems to be more categories of fat than flavors of Ben and Jerry's ice cream. Monounsaturated fats are one of the major healthy fats. Sources of these fats include olives, avocados, safflower oil, almond oil and extra virgin olive oil. These fats are known to increase the good cholesterol (HDL) and lower the bad cholesterol (LDL).

    Monounsaturated fats can help protect against oxidative damage that free radicals cause upon our bodies cells. Olive oil contains oleic acid, which is known to keep your arteries supple helping to prevent hardening of the arteries. Most important, mono's have an influence on testosterone levels, and this is something we all want to maximize.

    POLYUNSATURATED FATS
    When it comes to fats, these are the ones you want on your side. They are good for your health and will help your performance in and outside the gym. There are two main types of polyunsaturated fats. They are Omega 3's (Alpha-Linolenic Acid), and Omega 6's (Linoleic Acid). These are known as Essential Fatty Acids (EFA's). These can also be sub divided into the following. ALA* can form two other fats including Eicosapapentaenoic Acid (EPA) and Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA). The two different fats that can be created from LA* include Gamma-Linolenic Acid (GLA) and Arachidonic Acid (AA). Don't worry I am not going to go through every property of these fats I just want you to understand their basic composition and how they can help the powerlifter in his quest for a bigger total. I have outlined the fat composition of different oils in Chart 3A, and the breakdown of categories of which fat they consist of. There are many health and performance benefits of consuming polyunsaturated fats (PUF). Here are just some of the reasons why as a powerlifter you should make these a staple in your power diet.

    BENEFITS OF POLYUNSATURATED FATS


    PUF's lubricate your joints by helping them to move freely. They also help reduce inflammation caused by tendonitis, which is something all powerlifters have experienced at least once in their lifetime.
    PUF's play a major role in producing energy from the foods we consume and transporting it throughout our body.
    EPA and DHA are known to increase not only aerobic performance but strength as well. That's a benefit for all powerlifters.
    PUF's have a positive effect on thyroid hormones which means that we will burn fat more efficiently.
    PUF's are responsible for decreased recovery time and reduced soreness from the hard core power workouts we must perform to reach our goals.
    PUF's have the potential to increase insulin sensitivity in muscle tissue and decrease it in fat tissue. This means that our body will more effectively use insulin to transport nutrients such as amino acids, glucose, creatine ect, into our muscle cell where they can increase cell volumization and protein synthesis. At the same time they decrease the fat storing properties of insulin in your favor, helping you to stay leaner.
    PUF's can decrease body fat and help prevent insulin resistance which not only leads to obesity but to Type II diabetes latter on in life.
    PUF's help create a protective barrier around the cell to keep out bacteria and viruses, yet they keep important nutrients like enzymes and proteins inside the cell.
    PUF's have a positive effect on our immune system. We have all experienced a cold or flu just when our training seems to be going great. It was most likely caused from a weakened immune system because of the intense training load we put on ourselves, especially around contest time.
    PUF's help in the formation of hemoglobin. This is very important because hemoglobin is responsible for transporting oxygen to the body's cells.


    And # 8. : http://www.livestrong.com/article/44...-testosterone/

    Again. Watch "Fathead" and go Eat a Damn Steak with some bacon and cheese please.

    I may seem like an asshole but sheep who blindly follow are doomed to be led to the slaughter. That and stupid people annoy me!
  6. Douche_Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2012 11:14am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Actually Indians eat a LARGE amount of palm and coconut oil which is VERY HIGH in Saturated Fats. Do not speak of what you do not know.
  7. Ignorami is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/19/2012 11:22am


     Style: Aikido / FMA / Krotty

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks. , they look v interesting. Have class, but will read them at work tomorrow.

    I'm not against you here. I'm not veggie. I eat steak any time I can afford it.

    Also, I beat my vegetarian wife at cholesterol tests :-)

    That said, point 3 still screams of correlation not causation. I don't think your own link even drew any association between their vegetarianism and their heart disease rate (though I'll read it in less of a hurry tomorrow.

    Also, in addition to the saturated fat omega mentions above, let's not forget ghee too


    When life gives you lemons... BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!

    "what's the best thing about aikido then?"
    "To be defeated by your enemies, to be driven by them from the field of battle, and to hear the lamentations of your women." ermghoti
  8. Douche_Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2012 11:27am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My argument about Asian Indians applies to this thread very much. If being Vegan is soooo healthy why in the hell do they have an ultra high instance of heart disease? I cook my food with LARD , Bacon Grease or Butter, my blood pressure is perfect and I weigh approx. 145 to 150lbs given my activity output for the day. (Yeah, my metabolism is so high my weight can fluctuate 5 lbs in 1 to 2 days if I don't eat right) Oh yeah and for you vegetarian fighters out there who want that extra edge, cut out the soy products. Soy promotes the production of Estrogen in the body, which makes you lose part of your aggressive edge. Too much estrogen you get all girly and whiny. Just a suggestion.
  9. Douche_Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2012 11:33am


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    class.... on a Sunday. I'm lucky to find a sparring partner on Saturday much less class. lucky bastard! As I stated its the AMOUNT of saturated fat and type of it. Coconut oil is loaded with it and look at most Indian recipes. Everything in moderation...Except Moderation, Thats my motto! LOL. again Watch Fathead. It will change the way you think. Even if only a little. The entire FDA guidelines were started by George McGovern back during the Nixon Admin. and were based on the hippie dippie diet that HE was on, not science. Stay away from Vegetable Oils. You can use the Coconut Oil, but again, IN MODERATION! I say just use Bacon fat or Butter. mmmmm Bacon!!! mmmmm Butter!!!
  10. Ignorami is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/19/2012 12:01pm


     Style: Aikido / FMA / Krotty

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Douche_Supreme View Post
    class.... on a Sunday. I'm lucky to find a sparring partner on Saturday much less class. lucky bastard!
    Lol, not really, it's an aikido class.


    When life gives you lemons... BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!

    "what's the best thing about aikido then?"
    "To be defeated by your enemies, to be driven by them from the field of battle, and to hear the lamentations of your women." ermghoti
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